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Brumbies 2017

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mst

Peter Johnson (47)
^^^^Great minds!^Remember post #349 a few pages back:

As for the flyhalf issue - its slim pickings locally, so it again grab a young talent from somewhere, or the best JiD 10 (I like this option) or if you could swing it I would even take one of the standout 10's from the Mitre10.
I think he would be an excellent prospect and one of the reason I made the suggestion.

As far as I can find out he is unsigned and I believe the All Blacks would let him have a year or two "development" off shore with the right team. 21yrs old, plays 10/12. kicks, appears to have a good head on his shoulders (interview at the end of the below video), Ex U20, school boys etc and with AB pedigree (father ex AB - flyhalf and uncle an AB) could be an astute move. But how to get him in would be the issue - do we have room and a foreign / marquee spot available with Cubelli in?

Brumbies should be jumping at chances like this even if we end up with a bunch of young 10/12's (Jooste, JJH, Horan + ?). Sadly, I just don't see Lilo playing much if at all next season so we need to get some cover.

 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
Thanks for that MST. I had wondered if he was related to the Bachop (Graeme I think?) whom I remembered had played No 10 for the ABs.

He's got some pedigree, hasn't he. And it shows in the way he plays.
 
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Tomikin

David Codey (61)
We have scored Robert Valetini, sounds like a promising schoolboy from the following

http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby/...g/news-story/b20e53f5dbd80369ada54879d5d4626c
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
Not sure who is the Father and who is the Uncle but there are also links into the Mauger family, with Aaron Mauger as a nephew of Graeme and Stephen Bachop, so they have halfback, five eighth and Inside Centre covered genetically.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeme_Bachop

Be a good scoop if an Aussie Franchise could entice (and keep) him over the dutch.

It would, and the opportunity to get development @10 under Larkham and the Brumbies could fit well for all parties. 2 seasons and he would be in a good place to head back over the dutch for Super Rugby (we Aussie's might regret it but...).


Steven - Father, Graham - uncle. The sporting gene runs in in the family.

A few years ago he was already being noticed (gives a little family history etc):

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/sport/club-sport/7341175/All-Blacks-son-making-an-impact

More recent:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...g-chance-to-start-at-firstfive-for-wellington
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
An after thought - If the Brumbies did pull off such a move and also signed who I suggested, think bigger picture you would end up with a group of Powell (and Lonergan) Jooste, JJH, Horan and Garden Bachop bouncing off each other for a season or two at Super Rugby level as they develop and the likes of Godwin and Tevita on the fringe........with Lilo to chip in and Cubelli's influence not a bad melting pot at all.

That would hurt Aussie rugby (especially the Wallabies) future at all.
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
Actually, this story sorta writes itself.

So the Brumbies need dispensation due to Lilo - so they could get permission to recruit him.

Brumbies should be doing the "we need a 10 (you know the story why), you are looking for opportunity and its a 3.5hrs direct flight from home. (all fits well).

The PR side: Brumbies can market it as young blood as they rebuild (and for Aussie rugby) with Powell JJH (EPS) and Lonergan (development) as the local Canberra products, Jooste as the young Aussie prospect and one of your potential starting 10's, Garden Bachop as the "son of an AB and other starting 10, and Horan (on and EPS) as the back up and "son of a Wallaby".

It could be good PR for the Brumbies, Aussie rugby (Super Rugby level) and create interest across the dutch. All potential ratings boosters.

But knowing the Brumbies board they are too busy with their own game of throne's to to even consider on field issues.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
How does it help aus rugby development to have a side playing with a foreign 9 & 10?

It is bad enough to see two foreign 9s this season
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Three years later and he is eligible for Gold - The Mike Harris bylaw.

Can we get him, and is he prepared to wait for 3 years for a tilt at an International Cap that is looking unlikely if he stays in NZL?
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
How does it help aus rugby development to have a side playing with a foreign 9 & 10?

It is bad enough to see two foreign 9s this season

How does getting an AFL player help a rugby player at all? Ask the All Blacks! Thinking outside of the box.

Worst thing you can have in sport is ingrained or institutionalised thinking.

How do we (Australia) develop talent and depth if we just keep doing what we are doing?

Having Jooste, JJH, Powell and Horan exposed to all those elements in a compact space - how can it not? It would even help coaches.

Most coaches would love players to be exposed to different views, philosophies, skill sets, cultures and attitudes etc etc.

It pretty much why modern sports import foreign coaches or advisers to be always look for innovation or new / fresh ideas or approaches.
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
Three years later and he is eligible for Gold - The Mike Harris bylaw.

Can we get him, and is he prepared to wait for 3 years for a tilt at an International Cap that is looking unlikely if he stays in NZL?

He is only 21, and currently behind a new " AB 10" in Barrett at Wellington / Hurricanes. So he may be tempted to queue jump given the chance or at least put himself in a position where he can hedge his bets.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
How does getting an AFL player help a rugby player at all? Ask the All Blacks! Thinking outside of the box.

Worst thing you can have in sport is ingrained or institutionalised thinking.

How do we (Australia) develop talent and depth if we just keep doing what we are doing?

Having Jooste, JJH, Powell and Horan exposed to all those elements in a compact space - how can it not? It would even help coaches.

Most coaches would love players to be exposed to different views, philosophies, skill sets, cultures and attitudes etc etc.

It pretty much why modern sports import foreign coaches or advisers to be always look for innovation or new / fresh ideas or approaches.

A coach from a different code or country is completely different to signing a player who is ineligible for the Wallabies, a foreign coach can still directly contribute to the Wallabies, a foreign player can't.

Brumbies already have Cubelli, Australian rugby can't afford another foreigner in a specialist position like fly-half.. if the intent is to have a foreign development player, then different story..
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
On the subject of NZ rugby family heritage, whatever happened to Jack Whetton, son of one AB and nephew of another? Spent one or two years with the Brumbies but then returned to NZ I think. Haven't seen him mentioned in dispatches for quite some time.
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
A coach from a different code or country is completely different to signing a player who is ineligible for the Wallabies, a foreign coach can still directly contribute to the Wallabies, a foreign player can't.

Brumbies already have Cubelli, Australian rugby can't afford another foreigner in a specialist position like fly-half.. if the intent is to have a foreign development player, then different story..
Wow - its a hypothetical and the insecurities of Australian supporters come gushing through.

Also speaks volume about what we think of our current players and prospects when a single 21yrs old Kiwi get the "Wallabies" panic button pushed.

So having a Dan Carter or the like for a year of two to share his knowledge and experience with the like of Jooste and Horan etc is a bad thing?

So on the premise we can perform the miracle of creating a intentional 10 :rolleyes: (it would be by accident!), which currently seem to be impossible here in Australia with what we have o_O, the ill effects to the Brumbies and those players like the Jooste and Horan who would be a part of that and most likely be one step behind him would be horrific.

So, once we get past the institutionalised and obsessional and Wallabies centric rubbish, and remember we are in the Brumbies forum and about the Brumbies team we might just stop and look at the bigger picture.

So the Brumbies languishing at the bottom end of the Super Rugby table for a few years struggling to get Jooste up to speed with no back up is a good thing for Australian rugby? Wow. I believe that would be more damaging to the game overall than having a ineligible Kiwi as a 10 in a Super Rugby team.

Its not like one good player at 10 helping a team to be competitive would be beneficial to any one else in the squad or to Aussie rugby in general.:rolleyes:

BTW - This is first full year@10 in the Mitre10. He usually plays 12 /15. So who knows how it will turn out.
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
On the subject of NZ rugby family heritage, whatever happened to Jack Whetton, son of one AB and nephew of another? Spent one or two years with the Brumbies but then returned to NZ I think. Haven't seen him mentioned in dispatches for quite some time.

Playing in England.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Wow - its a hypothetical and the insecurities of Australian supporters come gushing through.

Also speaks volume about what we think of our current players and prospects when a single 21yrs old Kiwi get the "Wallabies" panic button pushed.

So having a Dan Carter or the like for a year of two to share his knowledge and experience with the like of Jooste and Horan etc is a bad thing?

So on the premise we can perform the miracle of creating a intentional 10 :rolleyes: (it would be by accident!), which currently seem to be impossible here in Australia with what we have o_O, the ill effects to the Brumbies and those players like the Jooste and Horan who would be a part of that and most likely be one step behind him would be horrific.

So, once we get past the institutionalised and obsessional and Wallabies centric rubbish, and remember we are in the Brumbies forum and about the Brumbies team we might just stop and look at the bigger picture.

So the Brumbies languishing at the bottom end of the Super Rugby table for a few years struggling to get Jooste up to speed with no back up is a good thing for Australian rugby? Wow. I believe that would be more damaging to the game overall than having a ineligible Kiwi as a 10 in a Super Rugby team.

Its not like one good player at 10 helping a team to be competitive would be beneficial to any one else in the squad or to Aussie rugby in general.:rolleyes:

BTW - This is first full year@10 in the Mitre10. He usually plays 12 /15. So who knows how it will turn out.

Yeah yeah yeah, call others insecure because they don't like your idea.

You aren't talking about Dan Carter, you are talking about a signing 21yr old from the ITM Cup, giving him 2 years development in an Australian rugby side before gift wrapping and sending him back to New Zealand. It's a stupid concept, if you're going to sign foreign ineligible players then you want ones with experience who can pass on knowledge, not a rookie development player.

Australian Rugby shouldn't be signing foreigners in specialised positions like THP or 5/8... it's bad enough there were two wallaby ineligible halfbacks starting for Australian teams in 2016.
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
Yeah yeah yeah, call others insecure because they don't like your idea.

You aren't talking about Dan Carter, you are talking about signing 21yr old from the ITM Cup, giving him 2 years development in an Australian rugby side before gift wrapping and sending him back to New Zealand. It's a stupid concept, if you're going to sign foreign ineligible players then you want ones with experience who can pass on knowledge, not a rookie development player.

Australian Rugby shouldn't be signing foreigners in specialised positions like THP or 5/8. it's bad enough there were two wallaby ineligible halfbacks starting for Australian teams in 2016.

Because people don't like the last suggestion, the one after exhausting the local options on the list of suggestions; and the one that was brought by someone else who even added a name. Yep, that's it. :rolleyes:

Its pretty clear that you didn't read the conversation before jumping to the usual defensive Wallaby centric rhetoric.

No, the actual stupidity is the assumption that we all think Wallaby first which is not the case. Its also pretty pathetic that with the limits on signing foreign players, you see it as a massive issue and threat.

Gift wrapping and sending him back - wow that's really stretching yourself. If we could do that I am pretty sure we would be doing with Jooste and Horan first.

Your comments are the perfect illustration of whats wrong with the game and the attitude and mindset that are holding it back and dragging it down..

The reason why we are talking about a 21yo Kiwi is lack of options. Why? If Aussie rugby was serious about doing something to fix the player problem we would have a more centralised player management policy to benefit the game holistically and the next 10 that needed opportunity and game time would be headed to the Brumbies - even if its on loan or similar, for the BENEFIT OF AUSSIE RUGBY.

Instead, the limited options that are available are signed elsewhere and will be coveted and only given opportunity if required - thus the opportunity is offered to a Kiwi.

So why cant we find a potential player that could make a good 10? Because when we have the opportunity to bring in anything that might help us build better players, and accept the reality that nothing is for free and stop the almost incestuous mindset of how Aussie rugby should be managed, we may then end up with higher skilled players and better depth. Coaches tell, other players demonstrate.

The end of the day we need the Brumbies and all Aussie Super Rugby teams to perform. (The Force are an example of what happens if they don't - on and off the field.). Lets face it, after last night it will be a tough sell to get many punters to watch any Aussie rugby!

But look, i don't want to leave you feeling worried or insecure, so I can assure you, even if we perform the miracle because of the exceptional circumstance that Lilo's sad news has created, of making (sorry - gift wrapping) a 21yo Kiwi playing @10 regularly at the provincial level for the first time into an AB in 2yrs and he jumps Cruden, Barrett, Spoaga, I think it will be a good endorsement for Aussie coaching and I believe they would even try to get him to defect - but that's ok as well because he still will never be a Wallaby even if he moves here today as he wont be picked before Foley or Cooper even if he is the next AB starter @10!;)

Now, being serious - can you name me a potential Aussie 10 that the Brumbies should be looking at because I cant, and it appears no one else in this thread can. Thus why we are talking about the last option we have - a young Kiwi.

Put up or shut up?
 

Highlander35

Steve Williams (59)
As a counterpoint, what young player is already signed up that you want?

And would the Ray's fly half not be good enough for you? Or Sam Greene when he gets back from Japan? Or Ben Lucas?
 
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