Broadcast options for Australian Rugby

[Lorenzo]

Well yea, nfl has too many teams so you can’t do anything but a conference system and a NBA team has like 3-4 games in a week, it’s not really practical for them to do anything but. Costs between travelling internally in NZ and AUS are very similar to travelling overseas to each country so no problem there, and you can travel from AUS to NZ quicker than travelling from one side of America to the other. If you only have two Japanese teams it’s not that great of an expense anyway, you’re not breaking the bank. We need as much competition against kiwis as possible and kiwis don’t want to play against themselves because they have Mitre10 for that

And by avoiding conferences you have more tv viewership, sure you might snag a couple of aussies or kiwis watching a “Japanese conference” especially if there are players from these countries playing, but you’re going to get a hell of a lot more viewers and more consistent numbers if the Japanese are playing regularly against overseas opposition

yes casual rugby fans will give a shit, why complicate something, people want easy to understand. Nobody wants to try follow a comp and have to figure out how the conferences work etc it’s just an unnecessary clusterfuck

There's not really any evidence for your claims, and the one I took issue with originally (fans dont like divisions and conferences) is demonstrably false. Not going to bother with the rest of it.

 

[Show-n-go]

There's not really any evidence for your claims, and the one I took issue with originally (fans dont like divisions and conferences) is demonstrably false. Not going to bother with the rest of it.

No real evidence for your claims either but cool, glad we can put it to bed

 

[Show-n-go]

" We need as much competition against kiwis as possible and kiwis don’t want to play against themselves because they have Mitre10 for that"

Jesus, we play against the Kiwis from January to October. 3 tests a year against the All Blacks our main domestic competition has more kiwi than Aussie teams, what part of playing more against NZ could we possibly fit in.

May i suggest part of the issue in Australia is the over reliance on any overseas market to try and solve our rugby problems, in fact a good dose of insular thinking may do the game here wonders.

Don’t want any more, just similar amount that we have currently, certainly not any less. Although in saying that I’d decrease the amount of tests we play against them, as I said previously I think we are playing too much test rugby

We can’t just play amongst ourselves, we don’t have the quality, enough teams or the star power

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

If South Africa do join the Six Nations, it doesn't necessarily prevent them from still being involved in some form of the Rugby Championship if they want to continue playing against the top SH teams.....

I suspect that we'll continue to see them compete in the RC as why wouldn't they want the best of both worlds?

The issue is Super Rugby. Where talking about a 7 week period at the very start of the competition. I think it would make their continued participation untenable

 

[Lorenzo]

I mean, there is: the American leagues are wildly successful and use conferences and divisions. That is a fact. You say the NFL has no choice but to implement it's current system but that is incorrect too: they could easily do away with the divisions and have two 16 team conferences,but they choose to have 4 divisions within each conference. You also say they succeed in spite of it but that merely reflects your ignorance regarding how seriously they take their division rivalries.


It's also unclear to me how you think a provincial comp will claw its way back in Aus with us consistently being pumped by the NZ teams and consequently never participating in finals. Frankly we probably need the false sense of success that am Aus conference provides.

 

[Joe King]

Agreed with no USA in a revised comp, I’d even be pretty open to punting Jaguars, make them split in two and play in the American League, tier 1 nations have done their bit in helping develop Argentina into a trier 1 country, time for them to give back and help raise up another nation

5 Aussie teams
5 kiwi teams
2 Japanese teams
1 Islander team (lobby world rugby to fund it)

Rugby Championship - NZ, AUS, JPN, ARG
Rugby Shield - USA, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga

Promotion relegation for above

Open national selection from nz/Aus so long as they are playing in the competition (regardless of what team)

Aus/Japanese/island team to focus on recruiting the large amount of Pacific Islanders in Europe, and it’s time for the islanders to make a stand, similar to what they’ve done in league. If you want your national team to be competitive and to have a super team you may have to take a decrease in salary for the greater good

Aus teams to go and pillage NRL stocks and recruit any former rugby union juniors they’re able to get their hands on




Now that’s a fucking competition I’d watch

That's key in my mind. Without it, we couldn't have a 5th team for a start because of our lack of depth. But with it, our lack of depth is no longer an issue and there is even more room for expansion because the market decides.

The Kiwis have never wanted it because they don't want to lose control of conditioning/resting players for Test rugby (fair enough). But there must be a clever way around this. I would be happy for them to experiment with the Melbourne Rebels by allowing that team to be a joint venture from as early as next year. Allow a certain number of Kiwi players to join, with some clear guidelines in place that NZ are happy with, and see how it goes. Might even strengthen the depth in the other 3 Oz teams.

 

[Joe King]

I dunno about that -- but either way, TRC should be played as a single round-robin IMO.

I think that's what makes the 6N so good and fresh. It keeps every game novel and exciting because you get one shot per year.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

That's key in my mind. Without it, we couldn't have a 5th team for a start because of our lack of depth. But with it, our lack of depth is no longer an issue and there is even more room for expansion because the market decides.

The Kiwis have never wanted it because they don't want to lose control of conditioning/resting players for Test rugby (fair enough). But there must be a clever way around this. I would be happy for them to experiment with the Melbourne Rebels by allowing that team to be a joint venture from as early as next year. Allow a certain number of Kiwi players to join, with some clear guidelines in place that NZ are happy with, and see how it goes. Might even strengthen the depth in the other 3 Oz teams.

If Kiwi and oz want to play in a better higher quality competition the answer is simple - find a halfway house between the current model and the more complete open market competitions like the English Premiership etc by allowing players to play across borders across the Super Rugby competition and still be eligible for their national team.

As NZ playing a closed shopped in a market where they don't have the scale to support their own pro domestic competition this to me is the clear answer. SA leaving Super Rugby might finally give NZ the wake up call that trying to have a pro competition where they restrict their players playing for other teams does nothing to create a high quality and balanced competition that creates major fan appeal.

 

[Joe King]

Don’t want any more, just similar amount that we have currently, certainly not any less. Although in saying that I’d decrease the amount of tests we play against them, as I said previously I think we are playing too much test rugby

We can’t just play amongst ourselves, we don’t have the quality, enough teams or the star power

Playing against the Kiwis hasn't really helped us a lot in terms of getting better at rugby. The reason we don't play among ourselves is not really because we don't have the quality, but because of financial reasons. Quality can be a bit relative. If it's the only game in town, people won't really compare it to anything else.

 

[Joe King]

I mean, there is: the American leagues are wildly successful and use conferences and divisions. That is a fact. You say the NFL has no choice but to implement it's current system but that is incorrect too: they could easily do away with the divisions and have two 16 team conferences,but they choose to have 4 divisions within each conference. You also say they succeed in spite of it but that merely reflects your ignorance regarding how seriously they take their division rivalries.


It's also unclear to me how you think a provincial comp will claw its way back in Aus with us consistently being pumped by the NZ teams and consequently never participating in finals. Frankly we probably need the false sense of success that am Aus conference provides.

I don't think fans mind conferences per se, as you say, but they have been thoroughly disliked by the Kiwis in Super Rugby because they clearly have a stronger conference and better teams, and so it gives the perception (at least) that they are being disadvantaged, while weaker teams from other conferences are getting an advantage. That's the issue with conferences in Super Rugby ATM. If players from NZ could be picked for Test rugby from anywhere and so could play in our teams, I don't think fans would have a problem with conferences. Although, my personal preference if for a single round robin. I think it keeps it really fresh and novel.

 

[Joe King]

If Kiwi and oz want to play in a better higher quality competition the answer is simple - find a halfway house between the current model and the more complete open market competitions like the English Premiership etc by allowing players to play across borders across the Super Rugby competition and still be eligible for their national team.

As NZ playing a closed shopped in a market where they don't have the scale to support their own pro domestic competition this to me is the clear answer. SA leaving Super Rugby might finally give NZ the wake up call that trying to have a pro competition where they restrict their players playing for other teams does nothing to create a high quality and balanced competition that creates major fan appeal.

I agree and would love this! The problem is, the Kiwis have every motivation to keep things as they are. The ABs winning is all that matters to them. It's enough to fill their hearts with pride and continue to keep rugby dominant in NZ. The current system has kept the ABs so dominant at the top for so long. It really works for them. Unfortunately, it doesn't work for us.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I agree and would love this! The problem is, the Kiwis have every motivation to keep things as they are. The ABs winning is all that matters to them. It's enough to fill their hearts with pride and continue to keep rugby dominant in NZ. The current system has kept the ABs so dominant at the top for so long. It really works for them. Unfortunately, it doesn't work for us.

I really do believe bigger picture this would be way better for NZ to really grow and expand the game across the Asia Pacific but yes unfortunately they see the AB brand as more important which to me still is nearsighted as I do believe the time is right to really invest in and grow the game across Asia Pacific but that would take yes NZ to play ball. Unfortunately yes I agree I can't see NZ having that foresight.

 

[Slim 293]

I suspect that we'll continue to see them compete in the RC as why wouldn't they want the best of both worlds?

The issue is Super Rugby. Where talking about a 7 week period at the very start of the competition. I think it would make their continued participation untenable

I suppose they theoretically still could participate in Super Rugby, but only by fielding some poor squads.........

 

[dru]

I agree and would love this! The problem is, the Kiwis have every motivation to keep things as they are. The ABs winning is all that matters to them. It's enough to fill their hearts with pride and continue to keep rugby dominant in NZ. The current system has kept the ABs so dominant at the top for so long. It really works for them. Unfortunately, it doesn't work for us.

So they get dropped. We need to stop pandering to them and start putting our game first. Sooner or later the Kiwis should wake up. Let them have a 5 team comp. Bothers me not at all.

 

[wamberal]

I think that's what makes the 6N so good and fresh. It keeps every game novel and exciting because you get one shot per year.

The buggers have some of the best talent in the world now, thanks to their deep pockets. Check out the number of "imports".

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I suppose they theoretically still could participate in Super Rugby, but only by fielding some poor squads...

Would we really want that though? I'd much rather they made the jump to the Pro14 en masse rather than seeing them put out sub par squads in Super Rugby. Everyone would be better served by going our separate ways in terms of Super Rugby with us at a minimum going to a 10 team structure involving us, NZ and the Jags.

 

[kiap]

Unoficially official, from the horse's mouth:

SA Rugby boss Mark Alexander has admitted that the Springboks could be joining the Six Nations as early as 2024.​

​

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/rumours-of-boks-move-north-not-far-off/​

Looks like another verified episode of SARU's regular threat/wish to go 'up norf'. Instead of a denial it reads like ownership of the narrative (or the bluff-n-bluster at a minimum).

Doesn't mean it will pan out, of course. The 6N substantial stakeholders CVC might have to screw over some reluctant people in the home nations to make it happen. But the saffa intent is on the radar.

 

[Show-n-go]

I mean, there is: the American leagues are wildly successful and use conferences and divisions. That is a fact. You say the NFL has no choice but to implement it's current system but that is incorrect too: they could easily do away with the divisions and have two 16 team conferences,but they choose to have 4 divisions within each conference. You also say they succeed in spite of it but that merely reflects your ignorance regarding how seriously they take their division rivalries.


It's also unclear to me how you think a provincial comp will claw its way back in Aus with us consistently being pumped by the NZ teams and consequently never participating in finals. Frankly we probably need the false sense of success that am Aus conference provides.

Old mate what happened to not bothering replying lol stick to your guns

 

[Adam84]

Australian Financial Review article today has given a scathing review of how News Corp and all the subsidiary newspapers have covered the broadcast negotiations with Rugby, poked holes in the scaremongering headlines and argues it’s purely for commercial gain rather then factual journalistic reporting.

 

[barbarian]

The SMH is clearly getting desperate for pundits. They've gone and published a piece from a GAGR hack.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-union/foxtel-tantrum-reveals-true-worth-of-rugby-tv-rights-20200209-p53z46.html