• Welcome to the forums of Green & Gold Rugby.
    We have recently made some changes to the amount of discussions boards on the forum.
    Over the coming months we will continue to make more changes to make the forum more user friendly for all to use.
    Thanks, Admin.

Broadcast options for Australian Rugby

Adam84

John Eales (66)
Surely we have to treat this as a Stan problem and not a Rugby Australia problem.

Rugby Australia shouldn't be sacrificing revenue because we view it as some sort of loss leader to attract more subscribers to Stan. If sacrificing revenue by having one Super Rugby game a week on FTA provided clear upside elsewhere for RA then it should be considered but it seems pretty clear that it doesn't.

Nine/Stan are paying for the broadcast deal. They are motivated to get the best value out of that they can.

There's nothing stopping Nine putting a game on FTA each week. If they consider that worthwhile to drive more subscribers to Stan then I'm sure they'll do it.

blame whoever you want... but putting more games behind paywalls isn't a positive for the game it's as simple as that, whether Stan or RA benefit from this in the short term doesn't mean it's not without longer term consequences..

Nine/Stans vested interest is 5 years, and arguably there planning for Stan in the SVOD realm only has clarity out to the next 2 years as they try and consolidate their position in an increasingly competitive market with new entrants.
 

PhilClinton

Paul McLean (56)
Yeh I mean if we compare this situation to our competitors, the NRL and AFL aren't going to their negotiation table and wanting to reduce FTA exposure, they know it holds value to their products.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
blame whoever you want... but putting more games behind paywalls isn't a positive for the game it's as simple as that, whether Stan or RA benefit from this in the short term doesn't mean it's not without longer term consequences..

I'm not blaming anyone. To me it just seems insane that Rugby Australia would forgo real money to force the broadcaster to put one game a week on FTA when we know that game rates poorly and we have no hard evidence to suggest that the value derived by having that game on FTA provides tangible benefits anywhere close to the money we're giving up for the privilege.

Yeh I mean if we compare this situation to our competitors, the NRL and AFL aren't going to their negotiation table and wanting to reduce FTA exposure, they know it holds value to their products.

It would seem neither of them are doing anything other than trying to maximize their broadcast deals.

The AFL have allowed their FTA coverage on Saturdays to be shown on delay presumably because it facilitated them getting more money from the SVOD broadcaster.
 

JRugby2

Vay Wilson (31)
blame whoever you want... but putting more games behind paywalls isn't a positive for the game it's as simple as that, whether Stan or RA benefit from this in the short term doesn't mean it's not without longer term consequences..

Nine/Stans vested interest is 5 years, and arguably there planning for Stan in the SVOD realm only has clarity out to the next 2 years as they try and consolidate their position in an increasingly competitive market with new entrants.
I definitely agree in principle, but with context it's not that black and white.

In a different reality if we had 3-4 games on FTA a week that we were trading away - I'd have a different opinion. I think it's just a pragmatic decision looking at what was put in front of them.

FWIW - the NRL have been openly exploring going behind a paywall permanently, even going so far as figuring out how to produce their own games so they can sell to the likes of Netflix or Disney - and yeah that'd be a dumb decision IMO.
 

Mick The Munch

Bill McLean (32)
Agree with all the above, how are we going to drive casual or lapsed viewers to the game when you have to pay $30 odd for the pleasure - plus it will never be shown in pubs.

RA should've negotiated a 24/7 channel with Nine, same as on 9Now you have 24/7 MAFS, The Block etc.

Still, it IS a good chunk of money - well done I suppose
 

JRugby2

Vay Wilson (31)
Agree with all the above, how are we going to drive casual or lapsed viewers to the game when you have to pay $30 odd for the pleasure - plus it will never be shown in pubs.
Hope it's not a pike fence ;)
RA should've negotiated a 24/7 channel with Nine, same as on 9Now you have 24/7 MAFS, The Block etc.

Still, it IS a good chunk of money - well done I suppose
Would you trade the uplift in money for this - meaning we don't have as much to invest in players/ high performance/ grass roots?
 

Adam84

John Eales (66)
I'm not blaming anyone. To me it just seems insane that Rugby Australia would forgo real money to force the broadcaster to put one game a week on FTA when we know that game rates poorly and we have no hard evidence to suggest that the value derived by having that game on FTA provides tangible benefits anywhere close to the money we're giving up for the privilege.

You can't make this claim if you have no insight into the details of the deal and what value was on the table for a FTA element.

But this is also the same argument had every time RA has signed a broadcast deal since 1996... "they would be insane to give up the riches of PayTV for the sake for FTA exposure"... 5 years is a short term sugar hit in the viability of a code or SVOD platform long term
 
  • Like
Reactions: mst

Adam84

John Eales (66)
Hope it's not a pike fence ;)

Would you trade the uplift in money for this - meaning we don't have as much to invest in players/ high performance/ grass roots?
Why do you assume the uplift is all because of the removal of FTA? That doesn't make sense when people are also arguing that the ratings of FTA are irrelevant and adding nothing.
 

JRugby2

Vay Wilson (31)
Why do you assume the uplift is all because of the removal of FTA? That doesn't make sense when people are also arguing that the ratings of FTA are irrelevant and adding nothing.
I could be wrong, but I'm inferring it from my experience in the media industry + Phil Waughs comments in this article.

I also don't think that one game added nothing - I've been pretty consistently saying it's a trade off. Knowing that Nine would rather paywall as much of their content as possible, it almost definitely would have been a bargaining chip.
 

Adam84

John Eales (66)
I could be wrong, but I'm inferring it from my experience in the media industry + Phil Waughs comments in this article.

I also don't think that one game added nothing - I've been pretty consistently saying it's a trade off. Knowing that Nine would rather paywall as much of their content as possible, it almost definitely would have been a bargaining chip.
no worries i might be conflating your comments with other been made.

I agree it's a trade-off, I just think there's some wild assumptions about what that trade-off is, and assuming that the uplift is directly because of the 1 Super Rugby FTA game is wrong IMO, especially when we're continually told that the Super Rugby element of the broadcast deal isn't worth much without the Wallabies. Alternatively, if the uplift is purely because of the paywall exlustivity, it highlights the value that that one FTA offered that we aren't seeing.

In any case, whilst I can appreciate RA's need for cash now, and Stan's competition in the SVOD market, I don't see this as a long-term positive for the game, especially when we were just told this week there was a 30% uplift in FTA ratings.
 

Wilson

John Eales (66)
Probably can't ignore the fact that Nine are going into negotiations with the NRL for their next broadcast deal soon, and like it or not they're going to want to keep their options open there - an ongoing commitment to broadcast super on FTA won't be worth much to them if they can swing NRL games across the weekend.

They also still retain the option to broadcast super games on FTA, and it's likely that any games with a good draw (Reds v tahs, top table clashes between Aus sides, possibly finals) will end up there. In combination with the club "match of the round" from Shute and Hospitals cup we're probably going to end up with more FTA exposure overall.
 

JRugby2

Vay Wilson (31)
Probably can't ignore the fact that Nine are going into negotiations with the NRL for their next broadcast deal soon, and like it or not they're going to want to keep their options open there - an ongoing commitment to broadcast super on FTA won't be worth much to them if they can swing NRL games across the weekend.

They also still retain the option to broadcast super games on FTA, and it's likely that any games with a good draw (Reds v tahs, top table clashes between Aus sides, possibly finals) will end up there. In combination with the club "match of the round" from Shute and Hospitals cup we're probably going to end up with more FTA exposure overall.
Off topic but my bet is Nine's not gonna get more content on more days out of PVL. If anything either their bill is going way up to keep what they have, or they get less (or both)
 

Wilson

John Eales (66)
Maybe i'm a sceptic, but I think all that commentary about "Nine can still show Super Rugby if they want" is just lip service to appease the critics
Possibly, but Nine will absolutely take advantage of the option if they see it as beneficial. It's up to the game to generate the momentum and interest to justify that, but that'd still be the case if we had a FTA guarantee - we only get value out of being on FTA if people are actually tuning in, which they clearly haven't been.
 

JRugby2

Vay Wilson (31)
Maybe i'm a sceptic, but I think all that commentary about "Nine can still show Super Rugby if they want" is just lip service to appease the critics
Yep, and this would come back to advertising.

The majority of ads you see during the FTA broadcast on SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) are free to the advertiser - either as bonus or makegoods for rating shortfalls elsewhere, and so if they aren't making money from it - they may as well paywall it like the rest of the competition.

FTA will get a token game but expect Nine to take the piss with this good faith arrangement.
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
You can't make this claim if you have no insight into the details of the deal and what value was on the table for a FTA element.

But this is also the same argument had every time RA has signed a broadcast deal since 1996... "they would be insane to give up the riches of PayTV for the sake for FTA exposure"... 5 years is a short term sugar hit in the viability of a code or SVOD platform long term
I think this is one of the key issues:

"......every time RA has signed a broadcast deal since 1996...."

It's hard to grow something that's been hidden behind paywalls making it an "exclusive product" for so long. It's probably a key reason why the game is in decline. I agree with your sentiments that RA have taken the short term sugar hit on every occasion and continue to do so.

The consequences of those decisions are clear. The game is struggling, revenue is low, it's a poor product and less people care. Before people jump at the "revenue is low" noting the increase from Stan, it's likey of more benefit to Stan to exploit and flog the dead donkey by propping it up to support their their platform. They obviously can see they need to chuck in a few extra dollar to keep RA afloat so they got a reasonable product which fills the content quota. We all need to remember that content to broadcasters is disposable. If it doesn't provide some form of return they will cut it. I doubt there is any "goodwill" in this deal.

The key question all sporting codes need to be asking is what is next? Where is our revenue stream? What are we doing with the game to keep fans engaged? So where is the future for Union? So far the only changes are a result of financial realities or partners going in other directions. RA has not made any real decisions other than to chase easy cash that's on offer. Everytime broadcast deals come up RA's answer seems to be just grab the cash again to support the rinse and repeat for the next "x" amount of years. Meanwhile crowds are slowly dropping off,so is the interest in the game.

Bottomline iis its a poor deal IMHO without more FTA. Sponsors know that and that's is where all the teams (nad Union overall) will take the biggest hit! No FTA devalues the brands, so things like jersey's sponsor sponsorship dollars is likely less so the trade off of increased revenue from Stan isn't really that much of an uplift. It's just made it tougher for the franchises in reality as they can't chase decent sponsorship dollars when they are locked behind a paywall.

RA has always had one advantage of the Wallabies over the rival codes that has kept them alive. You can see them bounce from Lions to RWC, to whatever test like sugar hits so they can patch the financial issues. IMHO they have become overly dependent on it and now not only don't know how, but can't compete in an open market with an any domestic products.

The signs of the Wallaby cash cow is going to get learner are looming. The KIwi's are looking elsewhere, including cutting a deal with the SARU to play without us etc, less test with the Nations Cup - which is likely a performanced based return so god help us!

I gotta say, as much as I love the game, reading its 5 more years of "this" has me thinking it's going to be a tough ask and hard slog to hang on. I don't see what RA will have to offer at the end of this 5 years if anything at all.

And please don't say the games have been good this year. So what? It's such a short flash in the pan, we all know it's likely the a Kiwi final which will be forgotten because in a few weeks, it will, be all about the Wallabies side show and the other codes finals. We will all be what Super Rugby thingy???

Key question most will be asking will be is it worth paying for Stan or not? It's a hefty price for a few weeks of Super Rugby when the wallet is tight.
 

JRugby2

Vay Wilson (31)
Probably not much point flogging the horse of 1996 much further. Hindsight is 20-20 and that has clearly not paid off in the long run.

But our reality is that extensive FTA coverage is never going to happen with current market conditions. With the NRL and AFL dominating the weekend, there is simply no space. All well and good to say "we should get more FTA" but unless RA want to start a 4th network - we don't have a buyer. Maybe we could have negotiated more, but it probably would have resulted in us taking a smaller deal when we need money to fund the game.

I also disagree that it's as dire as you say it is. Rugby has just gone through some of the toughest times we've ever had, and Sponsors haven't run for the hills, attendances and viewership are rising, we have a better financial outlook than NZ does and at the end of the next 5 years - lest history repeats and we piss it up the wall again - we should have a lot to show for it.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
It's not like there were significant amounts of rugby on FTA prior to 1996 that then moved to being on Pay TV.

My memory is that there was very limited coverage of Super 10 on Channel 10 and a Shute Shield game on the ABC.

People act like we had some thriving product that we then got greedy with and put it on Pay TV. We had an amateur game with little income and not a whole lot of interest in it.
 

Strewthcobber

David Codey (61)
I think we need to be realistic with this hindsight business. There has never been a market for FTA Super Rugby. Even test matches barely attracted any interest. You can't run a professional sport with this kind of revenue

Details here - $2m a year in the early 2010s (this is Foxtel onselling to FTA).

There has recently been some manoeuvering in the other Rugby code with Nine said to have lodged a $10-million bid (over 5 years) to broadcast Tri-Nations matches, home Tests featuring the Wallabies and a highlights package of Super 15 games in 2011-15.

The Australian reports that the offer is said to be less than the $15-$20m rugby officials wanted but Nine appears to be in the box seat given Seven is not involved in the bidding process and TEN remains frustrated that a $US40m offer has already been rejected.

Seven is believed to have paid about $17m for the last five-year deal but ratings for Wallabies matches have dropped. Bledisloe Cup games which once attracted 1.5m viewers in 2001 were lucky to get half that number in recent years.
 
Top