Bok 3 Nation Squad
- Thread starter PaarlBok
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Yep, seems a bit shit really. Now he's played for the Boks he's no longer eligible for Zimbabwe, and not currently eligible for the Boks either. Will he be allowed to play for the Sharks next year?
I understand that politically it's quite a sensative issue as there are millions of Zimbo's illegally in South Africa - they often get blamed for crime and taking unskilled jobs from South Africans.
I understand that politically it's quite a sensative issue as there are millions of Zimbo's illegally in South Africa - they often get blamed for crime and taking unskilled jobs from South Africans.
Nusadan
Chilla Wilson (44)
Reddy!
Bob Davidson (42)
That Boks forward squad looks absolutely amazing. Big, experienced and aggressive.
Their backs squad doesn't quite have the x-factor players of the Australian or New Zealands backs but it contains some very reliable, fast and big players with a few goal kicking gods to boot. Not to mention experience here too.
I think that is hands down the smartest thing he has said over the past 3 years hahaha
Their backs squad doesn't quite have the x-factor players of the Australian or New Zealands backs but it contains some very reliable, fast and big players with a few goal kicking gods to boot. Not to mention experience here too.
I think that is hands down the smartest thing he has said over the past 3 years hahaha
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Politicians in SA interfering in rugby, nothing new here.
Myself own 26 squad spot on, sis not know they will be 28, Beat and James the two additions. Januarie and Bitch probable the two I would not have picked but otherwise a great squad.
The match 22 a huge problem to pick against the All Blacks , think the XV maybe Kirschner, Habana, Mossie, JdJ, Aplon, Steyn, Januarie, Spies, Flo, Schalkie, Matfield, Bakkies, Jannie, Smith & Guthro.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Never in question, had a work permit , the Bokke part is the politicians calling the shots.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Luckily he have results to earn respect and not like others talking and nothing else. You just may see a total turn around in our backline play, all the ingredients in that backline players to prove you wrong plus they showed their mettle in the S14.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Well said PaarlBok, very well said. Here in Australia our ARU and elite coaches have a wonderful PR machine that specialises in finding new ways of turning 'disgraceful' into 'encouraging for the future' and 'terrible for the fans' into 'terrific new young talent on show'. Then we have a coach here whom yesterday declared that he was pretty pleased with our work in our June internationals.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
A loss at home against the Poms would have mend a new SA coach. Our lot pretty full of shite and a Bok coach easily the hardest job to have. We fire coaches winning the WC and Henry would have been a has been in SA rugby after 2007.
Snor sure have his mistakes regarding picking a few strange players like Pie Eater and ChilliBoy but then he have to play the political card pretty well in order to satisfy the ever so maoning politic lot. So we may give him a bit of credit for that and may excuse the odd pick. The rest of this squad I'd say spot on, maybe a extra hooker ipo CJ and the odd player you favour but no way you satisfy all the supporters.
Myself just have to look at where we are at the moment and where we were two years ago and its probably more easier these days to zoom in the players that lost out then then to who deserve the spot.
Doc Craven used to qoute if WP (Stormers) and NTvl (Bulls) have strong teams, you get a strong Bok team. A big advantage for Snor that SA have never been so strong in depth then at the moment. Just look at this June tests, he lost world class players like Juan Smith and Heinrich Brussouw and in come Flo, a combination of this two and the best player in the side from nowhere, give Matfield a rest and in come Bekker and probably the closest you'd get to Matfield in world rugby, JdJ and Aplon from nowhere to nail a jersey and just have to look at players from the Brutes and Stormers that is still waiting for a change. Players like Gerhard van den Heever, Stegman, Gary Botha, Joe Pietersen, Peter Grant, Dewaldt Duvenhage, Duanne Vermeulen, Adriaan Fondse, Wikus Blaauw and Liebenberg would have made any internal team proud.
Currently Snor can rotate his players with ease, keep only a few experiense players like John Smit and what you loose from the one that leave you get more or less the same plus a few things more from the new one. The way I see the positions are
15 Kirschner, Aplon, Pienaar
Wings: Habana, Aplon, Hougaard, Jean de Villiers
13 Mossie, Jean, Olivier, JdJ
12 JdJ, Olivier, Jean, Butch, Steyn
10 Steyn, Butch, Pienaar
9 Januarie, Hougaard, Pienaar
8 Spies, Kankowski
7 F Louw, D Rossouw
6 Schalkie, F Louw
5 Bakkies, D Rossouw
4 Matfield, Bekker
3 J Doep, BJ Botha, CJ
2 J Smit, Chilliboy
1 Guthro, Beast, CJ
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Thanks for this PaarlBok, I found it very relevant and interesting. Looking over our way, and you obviously follow our game a bit, what do you think we might learn from the last few years of very good outcomes and player depth in SA rugby now?
Just to note: out of our slick excuse-factory often comes the cry: 'oh, but we in Australia have so many winter codes, league, AFL etc, so we cannot ever have the depth or success of NZ and SA' etc. But they forget that you in SA have booming soccer as competition, much more than here today. And you have many more complex political and economic challenges than we do. OK, NZ has not much winter competition to rugby, but then again their population is 20% of Australia's. We are getting very good at soft explanations and low expectations over here.
Welcome your thoughts.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Player depth have everything to do with your rugby structure. We have our qouta system on the one hand pecking us back but then we have many more steps from schoolboy to international rugby compare to Aus and a bit less to NZ.
Our schoolboy rugby culture is very strong (just find out now with the Soccer WC going , it dont excist in our schools in soccer areas. Defnitely the reason why we are so weak in soccer, because rugby is being coached from 6 year old at schools while soccer is club driven in SA and they pick up the youngsters only from 14 to 16 years old at club level).
We have our Craven Weeks for schoolboy, CC U19 & U21 & seniors, Vodacom Cup , S14 then International. NZ do have their NPC for seniors , Aus straight into S14 level.
The future may change all of this, the new format S15 gives you more matches while we and NZ probably have to give some local competitions up.
Aus obvious much more organise compare to us in the professional era since 1995 and we waisted a lot of time at WP (Stormers) and Tin Ears (Cheetahs) before we got our Academies going. Getting them up, mean the important schoolboy base in SA hold on their own talent and giving them the passage to professional rugby. If you take a look at SA Top20 rugby schools :
1. Grey College (Bloemfontein)
2. Paarl Gim
3. Bishops
4. Paul Roos
5. St Andrew's (Grahamstown)
4 of the top 5 comes from this area and the top two schools produced the most Boks since readmission. The Stormers obvious have a big problem because they simply have to many top schoolboy players to pick one Craven Week side and SA Rugby do loose a lot of talent young talent in the process. Paarl Gym which I know very well have beaten this year all the local Western Cape schools and only 2 players made the Craven Week side. Meaning the other 13 have to go elsewhere to find a rugby future or go to Maties at Stellenbosch playing Boarding School rugby and ending leaving the sport because of academy duties.
For myself its a bit like building a strong schoolboy side for years. You have to go look at the grade 1, Under 7 team to build your depth from the bottom step and make it strong over a period of time. No qiuck fix.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Thanks very much PB for all that data. Very informative. I am just learning about the core of player development in SA. From what you have said, I think the schools development system in SA is not much bigger or deeper than the (roughly equivalent) total of Australian rugby-playing schools.
I was also interested that you said earlier that an SA top coach would be sacked for a loss at home to England, or similar. That is certainly not happening here!
I was also interested that you said earlier that an SA top coach would be sacked for a loss at home to England, or similar. That is certainly not happening here!
T
tranquility
Guest
Peter Grant didn't get selected - could that mean who could be again the the Force's radar? or is he happy with playing the second fiddle Bokke side?
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
I am not to sure about that. Myself love to read Oom Lee Grants stuff about your rugby and sure we had some discussion about some of this comparisons of this in the past.
If you want to compare your top schools, in SA our top lot have +- 20 rugby teams from age U14 to U18, they play U14, U15, U16 and U18 age groups and our U18s usually go down to 7 teams in that age group. When we play another on weekends we usually try to include all sports between the two schools and that include field hockey for boys and girls and also netball for girls. Paarl Gym have also the strongest school girl netball and hockey (girls) side at the moment in SA.
The same structure for players and different competitions also help a lot developing ref and coaches. The same rules apply and myself have always wondered why the ARU dont use this oppertunity to develop your refs. Sending them over to CC rugby and let them go through the SA ranks. It will be good for our S15 competitions if alll three countries can have the same amount of refs on the same standard to produce neutral reffing in the matches.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
He'll play in Japan during this years CC and will be back for the Stormers once the S15 starts next year.
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