Blues v Tahs, round 11 2014

[pissedoffihavetoregister]

i agree that dennis should be on the bench next week.

We blew 3 easy tries - any one of which would have made the result quite different. Some of them were bad misses.

 

[fatprop]

Abject lesson yesterday.

If you can't pass and you can't catch, you can't win

The more pressure put on them, the more their basic skills go to shit

 

[Pfitzy]

Why put pressure on yourself by offloading in contact though? Why not throw it a step earlier and put the man into the hole with clean ball?

That isn't Cheika's fault, that's everyone of the players thinking they're SBW. DRAW THE FUCKING DEFENDER!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Why put pressure on yourself by offloading in contact though? Why not throw it a step earlier and put the man into the hole with clean ball?

That isn't Cheika's fault, that's everyone of the players thinking they're SBW. DRAW THE FUCKING DEFENDER!

Sorry, it is the coaches fault when it becomes the approach of the whole team and when it's been their modus operandi for some time.
As ever, back to basics: piggies win the ball princesses use, abuse and squander it.
Piggies - you will never be criticized for not passing it and going to ground.

 

[Pfitzy]

If he tells them not to do it, but they keep doing it anyway, then he needs to start making changes. But wholesale changes won't deliver results either.

 

[qwerty51]

Abject lesson yesterday.

If you can't pass and you can't catch, you can't win

The more pressure put on them, the more their basic skills go to shit

Plus you can't win if you have a shit goal kicker.

 

[cyclopath]

Sorry, it is the coaches fault when it becomes the approach of the whole team and when it's been their modus operandi for some time.
As ever, back to basics: piggies win the ball princesses use, abuse and squander it.
Piggies - you will never be criticized for not passing it and going to ground.

Those are 1970s-80s basics.
In this day and age, they (piggies and any others) should be criticised. Plenty of teams have forwards who are excellent ball-players, and with the current style of teams running forwards all over the field and often wide, they all need to draw and pass neatly. It isn't OK to have guys who cannot execute the basic skill of catch, draw and pass fairly effectively. God knows they all have enough time on their hands to get better at it.

 

[BellyTwoBlues]

For mine I thought the Tahs were ordinary. Beale and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) went ok and it was clear to see that Beale basically got the edgar brits with what was going on and decided to have a crack himself.

I know I'll cop it from people inside the Tahs inner sanctum but I just felt that after 5 or 6 phases they had no idea what to do. They were getting in each other's way and appeared to be confused on what to do next.

At that level if you lose your way after half a dozen phases, you get the performance we saw yesterday.

A week's a long time in footy as we know, hopefully they can bounce back quickly.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Those are 1970s-80s basics.
In this day and age, they (piggies and any others) should be criticised. Plenty of teams have forwards who are excellent ball-players, and with the current style of teams running forwards all over the field and often wide, they all need to draw and pass neatly. It isn't OK to have guys who cannot execute the basic skill of catch, draw and pass fairly effectively. God knows they all have enough time on their hands to get better at it.

You're talking about a different set of circumstances.
Most of these passes are being thrown to blokes within 1 or max 2 m of the ball carrier: its almost impossible to give such a pass by drawing a defender and, what's more, theres not a single defender because the ball is being thrown in traffic. So even if you draw A the receiver will be tackled or will be under pressure by B.
What I wrote suffers from being a generalisation I accept but for the short passes in traffic particularly as your heading to ground its remains applicable.
It is also applicable when the ball is not being treated with respect - so 1/2 time talk should have been "cut out the 50/50 passes in traffic".
Its team wide: IF threw a dodgy pass to Crawford (that probably should have been caught) when he was basically through the line and just being rounded up - very little room for crawford who had started to fold in behind to hit the tackle/ruck: if he goes to ground we win the ensuing ruck etc etc. Its very low percentage stuff indicative of a lack of faith in the 80 minute ability to put points on.

I know I'll cop it from people inside the Tahs inner sanctum but I just felt that after 5 or 6 phases they had no idea what to do. They were getting in each other's way and appeared to be confused on what to do next.

Perfectly illustrated in the phase when Beale got cleaned up by Kaino and Mealamu.
Which is either an issue of structure - i.e. they are playing deliberate plans for the first 5 phases but then because, either, they don't have a strong understanding of the structure, or, there is no underlying structure the whole show falls apart.

 

[fatprop]

Plus you can't win if you have a shit goal kicker.

Yeah, sack Phipps and his bullshit climbing all over the scrum, sack Beale and his bullshit defending on the wing, start Dennis off the bench until he lifts his work rate, sack Robinson until he shows more effort

Next week

Kepu
TPN
Ryan
Skelton
Douglas
Pots
Hooper
Palu
McKibbon
Foley
A fit winger who has some pace
Horne
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Crawford
Folau

 

[Ghibli]

IMHO, probably the Tahs would benefit from a cultural/organisational change - the NSW model is not delivering the expected success. The coaches picked in the lat few years all have strong NSW background, some players keep being selected when out of form, hard decisions rarely made. Some players have a blinder every five games, and they keep their spot in the side the next four matches. You need people who put in 100% effort 100% of the times, like Hooper. Rugby is a team sport very much so, not an individual one. The Tahs need a team strategy to follow for 81 minutes, they seem to lacking in this sense. Need to bench underperformers -and need more players who do the tireless, unheralded and dirty work on the field, not just try scorers. All this said, the Tahs may now go on and win the compo - just doesn' t look very likely right now. My 2 cents.

 

[Pete King]

Dennis to fall off the bench all the way back to Uni.
Beale to the bench for his utility.
Horne to 12.
Palu to 8.

1000% agree. What good is he on bench

 

[mst]

IMHO, probably the Tahs would benefit from a cultural/organisational change - the NSW model is not delivering the expected success. The coaches picked in the lat few years all have strong NSW background, some players keep being selected when out of form, hard decisions rarely made. Some players have a blinder every five games, and they keep their spot in the side the next four matches. You need people who put in 100% effort 100% of the times, like Hooper. Rugby is a team sport very much so, not an individual one. The Tahs need a team strategy to follow for 81 minutes, they seem to lacking in this sense. Need to bench underperformers -and need more players who do the tireless, unheralded and dirty work on the field, not just try scorers. All this said, the Tahs may now go on and win the compo - just doesn' t look very likely right now. My 2 cents.

IMHO, there certainly are some questions about performance and attitude at all levels - administration, coaching and players. It does seem to be a rather inclusive environment and appears from the outside to be self promoting, very egotistical and at times self righteous.

But sport is sport and most know there are no short cuts and few miracles. The Tah's seem to jump from subscribing to one failed miracle to and another organisationally and on the field. In this type of environment its not long before you can see the faith being questioned due to the failed hollow miracles and subsequently you end up with some who lose their faith altogether. Once you have lost the congregation there is very little hope and we know the board's, committees and old boys in NSW love a good mutiny or overthrow, AKA: promotion (both self and professionally).

I think its time Tah's fans take a step back and have a re-read of this thread and realise that its the Tah's supporters who are criticising and asking questions about the administration, coaches and players performance, capability and competency more so than any outsider - which I think goes to support Ghibli theory.

It must be frustrating for most of the other franchises who are fighting to do the best they can with what they have and can only ever dream of having the history, population base, culture, level of participation and be the "cultural and geographic heart of rugby" and still be a basket case.

 

[Quick Hands]

One of the most worrying factors for England is that Alastair Cook does not have the right personality or tactical awareness for captaincy.
He is the sort of nice lad you would love to have as your son-in-law. But I don’t think he can tell anybody off and I cannot see him having cross words with anybody. There has to be a moment in time when every leader lets rip if people keep making the same mistakes. by Geoff Boycott


I think that you could substitute Waratahs for England and Dave Dennis for Alastair Cook and submit the same article.

Full article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...lity-and-tactical-skills-to-lead-England.html

 

[scaraby]

Apart from Phipps, we agree completely.

Last year we saw a logical selection process and a definite game plan/style of play. It didn't work perfectly every time, but I could see the makings of a good team there.

We seem to have thrown logical selections and a simple game plan out the window. I have no idea what they are trying to do out there and it seems that they don't either

Beale is simply not an inside centre and Horne is not a winger - so why are we playing them in those positions?

Some of us questioned the Beale and Phipps signings on the main Waratah thread before a ball had been passed, and in most cases what we said has come to pass.

My main question on the Beale signing was where to play him, as Foley was playing exactly the style of 10 that suited the team and Folau is the best 15 in the country. I had no problem with Beale playing 12 in the trials, but it quickly became apparent that he does not have the skill set in either attack or defence to play in that position. This means he either has to play 10 in place of Foley or start on the bench.

To me, Phipps is no improvement on McKibbin. Tonight where the backline was in disarray, was the time crying out for a half back with a decisive, strong running game, which Phipps doesn't possess or has hidden well. I don't think he ran the ball once and his one kick went straight down the fullback's throat, who then ran it straight back.

It's just so disappointing, after all the pain of seasons past to watch that tonight. It's like the last 2 years hadn't happened and we were back in headless chook mode.

mate I think your last line sums it up completely...i honestly cannot sit thru another 80 minutes of that.....Mckibbon box kick when we still had a chance killed it for me.....I have yet to see a box kick from a decent team only a desperate one and they rarely result in anything remotely good.

 

[A mutterer]

I trust Cheika's judgment but surely this butchered performance must question his faith in some of his own selections?

I think that his judgement should be questioned - and quite rigorously. He has had 1.5 seasons to get the tahs on track, and build on some of the exciting and encouraging elements that have been glimpsed.

However, there are a number of coachable errors and patterns of play that have not been addressed, because we keep bloody seeing them come out on the paddock. A lack of consistency, basic ball handling skills and an ability to think and cope with pressure (plus going to the back up plan) are things that it's his job to coach and enforce and quite plainly they just aren't happening.

This doesn't even begin to focus on the selection issues, and the performance of individual players over the past few rounds. Some hard decisions need to be made, as we have a couple of brilliantly consistent performances - notably hoops and jackpot - but they are not being matched all across the field and it's time for the team to stand up and being counted everywhere.

 

[Muttonbird]

Went to this match. The biggest surprise of the night - it wasn't raining, and the trains were only delayed for an hour and not cancelled altogether.

From ground level Kaino, Nonu, and Potgieter were the standouts. Potgieter seems like nut in the Chabal mode and not just because of the long hair. Luke Braid is the same and he has short hair.

I watched my favourite player, Piri Weepu warm up and that was the highlight of the match for me and my kids. Didn't matter that upon taking the field he made about 1000 mistakes.

Some commentators are saying the game was the Waratahs to lose and that they cut the Blues up all night and it was only poor finishing that let them down. Didn't feel like that at the game. At ground level the Blues were never in trouble really.

I'd agree that the Waratahs mistakes cost them but otherwise it was even.

Folau. Obviously dangerous with ball in hand and in space but there are too many defensive mistakes to be considered seriously at any level above S15.

Beale still has problems with footware. I know, I know Christian Cullen, another glider, used to slip a lot but he was a much better player.

 

[Muttonbird]

Btw. Heard the ground music was turned up to drown out Cheika's ranting.

 

[FrankLind]

As an AB fan Will Skelton worries me - serious go-forward.

 

[Muttonbird]

Yeah true, there was some grunt in the Tahs pack which I couldn't identify.

But I mean to say, if their best player (Potgieter) is not only born in South Africa, but is an actual Springbok, then questions need to be asked.