Blues v Tahs, round 11 2014

[A mutterer]

i'd like to see the big lads get some tries, certainly jackpot and hoops deserve a couple given their performances over the past few weeks.

i keep hearing commentators talk about our 'monster pack'. well, it's time for them to step up and bash the proverbial up the middle and one out so we can actually go wide and have some space.

 

[Pete King]

Certainly on form, you would keep Skelton in the starting side. He has been immense.

Douglas has played a huge amount of minutes so far this season so perhaps this week could be an opportunity to start Skelton and Potgieter at lock, Dennis at 6, Palu at 8 and have Douglas on the bench to come on for Skelton.

I agree with the conversation that out of Douglas, Skelton, Potgieter, Dennis and Palu to cover 4,5,6,8, Dennis is currently the weak link there (but only ever so slightly).

I disagree that Hoiles should be in that same conversation though. Dennis is currently well ahead of him.

only well ahead of him because he is the captain and has played significantly more minutes. aside from the one turnover you mentioned has had little to no impact in those minutes. Bit rough on hoiles when aside from the full game where we spanked the reds. he has had an average of 12 minutes per game.

 

[Braveheart81]

Bit rough on hoiles when aside from the full game where we spanked the reds. he has had an average of 12 minutes per game.

A bench player is always going to have to be explosive in their opportunities to demand more game time or wait for an injury to give them a chance.

No coach is going to give his bench player more opportunity because when given only 12 minutes (on average) they didn't do very much.

I'm a fan of Hoiles but the discussion around Hooper potentially taking the captaincy so Dennis doesn't have to be in the starting side really doesn't revolve around Hoiles in any way in my opinion. It's far more a case of trying to squeeze Skelton, Potgieter and Palu into the same starting side.

 

[Pete King]

A bench player is always going to have to be explosive in their opportunities to demand more game time or wait for an injury to give them a chance.

No coach is going to give his bench player more opportunity because when given only 12 minutes (on average) they didn't do very much.

I'm a fan of Hoiles but the discussion around Hooper potentially taking the captaincy so Dennis doesn't have to be in the starting side really doesn't revolve around Hoiles in any way in my opinion. It's far more a case of trying to squeeze Skelton, Potgieter and Palu into the same starting side.

Agree that paramount is the capt to hooper and for some games id definately start with the trio you mentioned. What I was referring to is that you cant say a player is well ahead when he has been given all the oppotunity in the world and imo been ineffectual. I believe in incumbency for players performing but if a player is not performing then he should be shown the door. I think Hoiles did enough through trials and in his one full game to suggest that the lineout wouldnt fall apart without dennis.

 

[Braveheart81]

I disagree with the suggestion that Dennis has been ineffective. Statistics only tell part of the story, but against the Bulls, Dennis was third amongst the Tahs forwards in run metres, made 6 tackles with no misses, had a line break, gave away one turnover and no penalties.

I think he is very much getting the job done and for the last three games has been split between playing his second best position of 8 and his third best position of lock. I really don't think there is any form issue to suggest that Dennis shouldn't be in the side, particularly when looking at the positions he has had to play.

 

[Pete King]

I disagree with the suggestion that Dennis has been ineffective. Statistics only tell part of the story, but against the Bulls, Dennis was third amongst the Tahs forwards in run metres, made 6 tackles with no misses, had a line break, gave away one turnover and no penalties.

I think he is very much getting the job done and for the last three games has been split between playing his second best position of 8 and his third best position of lock. I really don't think there is any form issue to suggest that Dennis shouldn't be in the side, particularly when looking at the positions he has had to play.

agree to disagree, I struggle to recall a time when he has bent the line in attack the whole year, a decent prerequisite for 8 or 6.

 

[cyclopath]

agree to disagree, I struggle to recall a time when he has bent the line in attack the whole year, a decent prerequisite for 8 or 6.

That's the rote approach, but it really depends upon who else is in your pack. If, say, you play Palu, Skelton, Potgieter and Hooper, I would think there is little / no requirement for Dennis to be bending the line much, and his work rate in other aspects might be more critical - does he make tackles, does he win lineouts etc... (and no, I'm not arguing that he is doing all those better than anyone else, as I have not looked at season stats, I'm just making a general point). Obviously, if several of our regular ball-runners / smashers are out, it is more of an issue.
As with many selections, it's about balance.
If Hoiles is so good, I'm sure he would have suitably impressed Cheika on the training paddock and forced selection.

 

[Braveheart81]

If Hoiles is so good, I'm sure he would have suitably impressed Cheika on the training paddock and forced selection.

I think this is always a crucial point. Often fans want to see for themselves what a certain player can do who hasn't had much opportunity, but the coach gets to see it week in week out and makes selection decisions on that basis.

Some players have clearly leapfrogged others based on what they do at training such as Skelton and Alofa.

 

[Pete King]

I think this is always a crucial point. Often fans want to see for themselves what a certain player can do who hasn't had much opportunity, but the coach gets to see it week in week out and makes selection decisions on that basis.

Some players have clearly leapfrogged others based on what they do at training such as Skelton and Alofa.

all academic now, Dennis to start , palu on the bench for Hoiles

 

[Pete King]

Like the situation with foley, beale 10-12. Similary Dennis at skip I think Chiek will stick to his guns and to be fair whilst a leanish trot through the middle they are still placed pretty well and if foley improves could still tear a team or two apart.

 

[Bairdy]

Reserves
16. James Parsons
17. Sam Prattley
18. Angus Ta'avao
19. Hayden Triggs
20. Piri Weepu
21. Steven Luatua
22. Ihaia West
23. Pita Ahki

Thought he was in the Chiefs WTG?
SJK is going through more flyhalves then he has contracted!

 

[Braveheart81]

Thought he was in the Chiefs WTG?
SJK is going through more flyhalves then he has contracted!

They drafted him in a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Pfitzy]

Yeah after one of their other rookie inside backs (Kerr?) got injured.

Good player West - let's hope he doesn't get to prove it...

I'm looking at the Blues lineup and am genuinely worried.

 

[Pete King]

Yeah after one of their other rookie inside backs (Kerr?) got injured.

Good player West - let's hope he doesn't get to prove it.

I'm looking at the Blues lineup and am genuinely worried.

Any side with a fit-ish piri weepu on the bench is a worry

 

[A mutterer]

The blues look strong and something like Benji's departure is likely providing a spark.

I want to say this is the game but ive used up my quota for schtick posts about this being THE game.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

Anyone know why luatua is on the bench? Is he coming back from injury? He's a dangerous runner

 

[qwerty51]

Well they have Kaino and Saili so he goes to the bench.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Anyone know why luatua is on the bench? Is he coming back from injury? He's a dangerous runner

His form has been up and down, and probably more down than up IMO.

He's shown some of that damaging form that got him an AB jersey last year, but for the most part he's drifted out of games. Could be the kick in the pants he needs.

Blues look good on paper no doubt, but they have struggled to link forwards with backs and lacked fluency in attack. Their defence last week was soft as also.

They should be fired up for this one though, being back at EP.

 

[I like to watch]

Any side with a fit-ish piri weepu on the bench is a worry

Even a fat-ish Piri can cause heaps of problems!

 

[terry j]

Even a fat-ish Piri can cause heaps of problems!

He might make u weep?