Bledisloe # 3 - Saturday 31st October, ANZ Stadium

[Micheal]

I just listened to the rugby ruckus podcast, Mr Tirinui highlighted that most of the defensive errors were about structure and trust in the units next to you and knowing what they will do

I standby my point that for the moment we need more cohesion so pick players as units wherever possible - Petaia and Koro are the only 2 special backs we have, the rest ..... are no better than their replacements

The reality is that most opposition line breaks outside of your 22 are completely manageable and are often immaterial, so long as the defensive structure holds and each player sticks to their man. Most teams these days will go backwards for 3-4 phases at a time, before looking to burst through.

Once a player comes in because they're not sure if someone inside will drift fast enough, that's when you have trouble and an offload or two can mean a try.

Stay on your man, stay wide, don't commit four players to tackling one man (unless he's made of grease, e.g. Clarke). Once the tackles made, reset structure and let them go backwards again as they look for another opening.

 

[Pfitzy]

^^^ You just described the opposite of every league winger in history.

 

[Up the Guts]

^^^ You just described the opposite of every league winger in history.

You can break the defensive line in League since you get a chance to reset after the next tackle. No guarantee you can reset the line in Union if the opposition get quick ball from the ruck.

I had to laugh at the criticism of Paisami and Daugunu for shooting in the Savea in the try. It was about 7 on 2 10 metres out from the try line, drifting ain't going to cut it then.

 

[qwerty51]

^^^ You just described the opposite of every league winger in history.

League winger defending has always bewildered me. In rugby you're taught never to get beat on the outside as your jockey defence will cover the inside and you must stay on your man on the outside. My only thinking is since there's no deliberate knock down you can kill the pass easier if you jam on the ball carrier on a 2 on a 1 but their success rate is so poor in league.

 

[Derpus]

League winger defending has always bewildered me. In rugby you're taught never to get beat on the inside as your jockey defence will cover the inside and you must stay on your man on the outside. My only thinking is since there's no deliberate knock down you can kill the pass easier if you jam on the ball carrier on a 2 on a 1 but their success rate is so poor in league.

Has always confused me too. Maybe its just about that natural league instinct to go for the 2-3 man tackle to cut off the opportunity for an offload.

 

[Up the Guts]

League winger defending has always bewildered me. In rugby you're taught never to get beat on the inside as your jockey defence will cover the inside and you must stay on your man on the outside. My only thinking is since there's no deliberate knock down you can kill the pass easier if you jam on the ball carrier on a 2 on a 1 but their success rate is so poor in league.

League teams started using the umbrella style defensive pattern when they had the defensive line 5 yards from the play ball (John Muggleton actually brought over the umbrella defence to the Wallabies in the 90s). It was so effective that they eventually shifted the defensive line back to 10m behind the play the ball. The umbrella systems still remained in a modified form.

Compared to Union, League is a lot more mano e mano (you also have more space with two less players on the field). If the attacking players are doing their jobs and running lines that fix their opposites then a one man overlap close to the line is often enough to generate a try. In that case if you're caught short you're better to shoot than try and cover two players on the slide. In Union you'll more likely have defensive players trailing from the previous ruck who can make up the ground.

I think it's useful to have guys with knowledge of both codes like Brian Smith and John Muggleton involved in Australian Rugby. In the era of video analysis so much is about finding the next strategy that teams haven't seen before. We should be looking to League for tests of what does and doesn't work. To bring it back to Bledisloe 3, stopping a big powerful guy with a head of steam up like Caleb Clark is something that happens every week in League. Something like a gang tackle might be worth trying.

 

[Dan54]

I do think after watching the Eden Pk Bled, the Wallabies may be a little more inclined to just go back to tackling, without trying the 'hits' as they do them. Watch the times that Clarke made most ground, generally had impression the Wallabies were trying to smash him around shoulders etc, and not just tackle him as White did when he bought him down. May of been a reaction to how well they thought the first test went when they lined up Mounga etc? BB seemed to bounce off a few too.

 

[Derpus]

Daugunu, Paisami and MK all do that on nearly every tackle they try to make.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

His daughter having arrived overnight, Sevu Reece is likely to fly over with the main AB group tomorrow:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/a...welcomes-baby-daughter-before-trinations-trip

 

[formerflanker]

Stuff the stats, AFL and League have real cultural connections to Indigenous communities which is why they have so many more Indigenous players. There are plenty of super talented Indigenous athletes from the northern rivers but they live and breathe NRL. Indigenous kids growing up in NT and WA all play AFL.

If we want more Indigenous athletes in the game then we need to work out how we can capture the talent from AFL and League. I wouldn’t want to be put in charge of that task though, bloody hard to change 100+ years of community involvement in a single sport.

Excellent points.
I would add the earlier availability of money and resources from AFL and NRL sways good athletes of all nationalities away from rugby's essentially amateur grass roots.

 

[wamberal]

Stuff the stats, AFL and League have real cultural connections to Indigenous communities which is why they have so many more Indigenous players. There are plenty of super talented Indigenous athletes from the northern rivers but they live and breathe NRL. Indigenous kids growing up in NT and WA all play AFL.

If we want more Indigenous athletes in the game then we need to work out how we can capture the talent from AFL and League. I wouldn’t want to be put in charge of that task though, bloody hard to change 100+ years of community involvement in a single sport.

It is not just "100+ years of community involvement" by other sports, it is also our sport's record of many years of actual or perceived indifference, if not actual discrimination. Not just here, but in most if not all places where our sport was played, it was perceived as a game for middle to upper class white males.

We have very, very little to celebrate as a sport in Australia in this space. We need to put our heads down. shut our mouths and be seen to work hard to make our sport as accessible to all people as we can.

 

[formerflanker]

League teams started using the umbrella style defensive pattern when they had the defensive line 5 yards from the play ball (John Muggleton actually brought over the umbrella defence to the Wallabies in the 90s). It was so effective that they eventually shifted the defensive line back to 10m behind the play the ball. The umbrella systems still remained in a modified form.

Compared to Union, League is a lot more mano e mano (you also have more space with two less players on the field). If the attacking players are doing their jobs and running lines that fix their opposites then a one man overlap close to the line is often enough to generate a try. In that case if you're caught short you're better to shoot than try and cover two players on the slide. In Union you'll more likely have defensive players trailing from the previous ruck who can make up the ground.

I think it's useful to have guys with knowledge of both codes like Brian Smith and John Muggleton involved in Australian Rugby. In the era of video analysis so much is about finding the next strategy that teams haven't seen before. We should be looking to League for tests of what does and doesn't work. To bring it back to Bledisloe 3, stopping a big powerful guy with a head of steam up like Caleb Clark is something that happens every week in League. Something like a gang tackle might be worth trying.

Rugby has it's own history of how to deal with big fast runners.
Think RWC 1995 and the absence of the great Jonah Lomu from try scoring statistics of the game.
SA went for a hit and stick approach to tackling him, giving support players time to arrive.

 

[Drew]

Any idea when the teams are named?

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

BabySav has arrived & Ardie obviously won't be on the plane to Sydney today. Expected to fly over later in the week & won't be available for Bled3, Sotutu would be the logical replacement although Akira had a ripper of a game for Aucks yesterday so can't be ruled out entirely. Laulala's baby hasn't arrived yet so he, too, will miss the flight & match.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...kins-sotutu-looms-as-ardie-saveas-replacement

 

[KOB1987]

With Naisarani joining the squad and the extent of Wilson's ailments being revealed, I reckon he will be spelled for this game with Isi jumping straight in. He can't jump though so Ned will probably stay at 6. If Isi pulls out a big game then Wilson could shove Ned out for Bled 4.

 

[Up the Guts]

With Naisarani joining the squad and the extent of Wilson's ailments being revealed, I reckon he will be spelled for this game with Isi jumping straight in. He can't jump though so Ned will probably stay at 6. If Isi pulls out a big game then Wilson could shove Ned out for Bled 4.

Why can’t he jump? Or do you just mean he’s not very good?

I got the sense Harry’s injury was very temporary. I’d love to see 6. Wilson and 8. Naisarani but if Harry is struggling Ned may not be so bad.

 

[Viking]

oh damn I love the sounds of a Naisarani, Wilson, and Hooper backrow.

It is quite surprising Hangian is chosen in front of the likes of Naisarani, Dempsey, Swinton, Valetini etc.... or maybe more surprising is the lack of jumping abilities of our tall backrowers (assuming this is one primary reason for Neds inclusion - which is totally logical).

 

[TSR]

With Naisarani joining the squad and the extent of Wilson's ailments being revealed, I reckon he will be spelled for this game with Isi jumping straight in. He can't jump though so Ned will probably stay at 6. If Isi pulls out a big game then Wilson could shove Ned out for Bled 4.

Are you talking about his foot injury? He got cleared to play the last Bledisloe, so I can’t see it would be a reason not to play this one. I can’t see him being rested yet personally and I think Ned will be retained at 6.

 

[Pfitzy]

oh damn I love the sounds of a Naisarani, Wilson, and Hooper backrow.

I also like losing lineouts.

Fellas, it is going to be wet this week in Sydney and a thunderstorm might hit around game time based on the forecast, so I'll take whatever gives us best ball security and a repeat of the Wellington kicking game.

 

[Sully]

I also like losing lineouts.

Fellas, it is going to be wet this week in Sydney and a thunderstorm might hit around game time based on the forecast, so I'll take whatever gives us best ball security and a repeat of the Wellington kicking game.

But! (insert fav player from the team I support) will make it better!