Bledisloe # 3 - Saturday 31st October, ANZ Stadium

[Gervais_rugbylives]

Hamish Stewart - great defender and organised Reds defensive line, good kicking game, brilliant offloader. He put the Reds outside backs into gaps all season.

I do not think Hamish is a good idea this year.

 

[molman]

Are you seriously that challenged at comprehension? Go back and read what I posted. Don't post until you comprehend.

It is not harsh. It is truth. I tried babying apprentices along in my two vastly different professions and I found in both cases they got over inflated senses of their worth and skills, and in some regrettable cases got themselves and others hurt because they would not develop the proper skills. I don't baby anymore, if somebody simply doesn't have the skills necessary they get told and don't get paid the wages. Pisses the useless Training Organisations off no end since those frauds don't get paid for Not Yet Competent.

That is the Wallabies Not Yet Competent.

No, I'm not renowned for being challenged in comprehension.
 I just challenge your assessment of the players skills vs. that of their peers when truthfully you likely lack the necessarily insight or data to make the necessary judgement. 


It's all well and good to tell players you deem to lack necessary skills they are not needed, but if you have a job to do you have to use what is available. It's naive to think that the coaching staff wouldn't be looking to put the best players they had available to them out on the field and this inference that there are other options out there doesn't align with the current realities of the Rugby landscape atm. I doubt in an ideal world for example Rennie wished for Noah and Simone to be starting out there today but you have to use what you have.


Anyway I'll agree to disagree with you, because the honest truth is that the trend for Australian Rugby is more an illumination of the systemic issues than the quick fix coaching or selection woes that people hope it to be. The former is hard to resolve, the later is easier hence the hope we continue to have. You are correct in that there is likely more attrition and refinement of skill in NZ because getting to the top means proving yourself against a broader base of players through things like Mitre10/ITM. Australia just doesn't have the depth and in a post amateur world we unfortutnely just come up short against the best side in the world.

 

[shanky]

I genuinely feel sorry for Rennie

Imagine having to convince lads to bend their back for their country? A kiwi would have no experience of that conundrum

White spending his time mouthing off while watching blokes stroll in for tries.

Poor old Rennie. Welcome to the Australian rugby perpetual shitshow.

 

[molman]

My favourite post of the night. In the amateur days there was no special treatment, no contract straight out school, find yourself a Shute Shield club and prove yourself by improving! Higher honours came from this and plenty of competition for these rep spots.

This is where we a lacking most against NZ competition for spots coming from a tier outside of Super Rugby. Too many anointed schoolboy rockstars who haven’t had to prove their ability outside of schoolboys. We create a very narrow pool from which to select talent from. The player that improves himself post school but never walked out of school with a Super Rugby contract or was part of the ‘pathways’ these days does not get a look in.

That would all be nice, but how does that really work in a competitive landscape when you have other codes locking up talent whilst at school. 17year olds like Sua'ali'i who will never play in SS because he will be earning a multimillion dollar contract with Souths in the NRL.

 

[Derpus]

I genuinely feel sorry for Rennie

Imagine having to convince lads to bend their back for their country? A kiwi would have no experience of that conundrum

White spending his time mouthing off while watching blokes stroll in for tries.

Poor old Rennie. Welcome to the Australian rugby perpetual shitshow.

I'm actually pretty pissed with Rennie for managing that first Bledisloe performance. Made me, you know, think we wern't dog poo.

 

[shanky]

I'm actually pretty pissed with Rennie for managing that first Bledisloe performance. Made me, you know, think we wern't dog poo.

True

It’s the hope that kills you...

 

[KOB1987]

I'm actually pretty pissed with Rennie for managing that first Bledisloe performance. Made me, you know, think we wern't dog poo.

All blacks generally come out of the blocks slow. Cheika managed a record result against them first game just last year. It was put down to an anomaly, which by and large it was.

 

[Penguin]

Sounds a bit like Noah Lolesio and we just saw how that went.

Stewart is too fresh.

Simone was solid at 12. We just need JOC (James O'Connor) or To'omua to be fit for 10.

Sorry, I don't usually make comment on individual player performances & I'll temper how I really feel about it, but Simone was NOT solid. Not even close to solid. It was possibly the worst debut I've witnessed. I won't throw up any potential players as a replacement but geez I hope he doesn't get another shot.

 

[KOB1987]

That would all be nice, but how does that really work in a competitive landscape when you have other codes locking up talent whilst at school. 17year olds like Sua'ali'i who will never play in SS because he will be earning a multimillion dollar contract with Souths in the NRL.

It’s the Roosters now apparently. However, I have a suspicion he’s actually going to choose rugby.

 

[Gervais_rugbylives]

Let's try building up a competitive comp with the Aussie teams to get people interested in playing for these teams, as well as human people watching the games .

 

[Viking]

Sorry, I don't usually make comment on individual player performances & I'll temper how I really feel about it, but Simone was NOT solid. Not even close to solid. It was possibly the worst debut I've witnessed. I won't throw up any potential players as a replacement but geez I hope he doesn't get another shot.

Shit. I was thinking that about Lolesio. I better watch the replay more closely.

 

[molman]

It’s the Roosters now apparently. However, I have a suspicion he’s actually going to choose rugby.

There you go. Either way, like tragic said, your damned if you do, damned if you don't. I personally didn't mind the RA securing many of the U20 talent, if we can bring a group together we might be a hope.

Red's are seeing some of the fruits of that approach. Lucas/Rodda was obviously a bump in the road which was a shame.

 

[shanky]

It’s the Roosters now apparently. However, I have a suspicion he’s actually going to choose rugby.

Without picking on that young man...
We have a system where ‘school of hard knocks’ is replaced with ‘private school of adult sycophants and constant praise’.

Nigel Plum played super tough for the Panthers until his head failed but never made a rep team. If he played rugby, he’d have been WB captain at 17.

 

[Penguin]

Shit. I was thinking that about Lolesio. I better watch the replay more closely.

Perhaps it was a combination of the two. At least Lolesio has the excuse of inexperienced youth. We really missed an experienced head midfield, it was always going to be a tough ask. I hope both young men can come back stronger from the experience.

 

[tragic]

Sorry, I don't usually make comment on individual player performances & I'll temper how I really feel about it, but Simone was NOT solid. Not even close to solid. It was possibly the worst debut I've witnessed. I won't throw up any potential players as a replacement but geez I hope he doesn't get another shot.

Yeah I agree.
But I’d already thrown Noah and DHP under the bus so I thought I’d stop there.
If JOC (James O'Connor) is still out and with To'omua out for the season we’re really exposing our lack of depth.
Paisami/Petaia would be my midfield but 10 is a real dilemma.
I’d be tempted to put hodge at 15 and play the SAF game from a few years back. Kick it long and into the stands every touch and play the tight game in their half.

 

[Drew]

The worst ever loss? I like the positive attitude and i still somehow manage to muster up hope that the Australian players won't literally wet themselves when they take to the field. But they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Fair call, I found that painful that to watch too.
I Personally think the system is flawed, as someone else said, why are we replacing a 30 year old 10 with a 20 year old? Why wasn’t anyone developed to fill that role during the QC (Quade Cooper)/Foley era? JOC (James O'Connor) played blind side wing for a few tests before being given a more responsible role.
I do get that the result and performance weren’t good enough, the backs squandered what crumbs of possession we had away with dumb kicks and dodgy offloads, you wouldn’t want to be them at the video analysis this week. And yes, let’s hope they don’t wet the bed. Let’s hope they react with a bit of guts and application.

 

[KOB1987]

Without picking on that young man.
We have a system where ‘school of hard knocks’ is replaced with ‘private school of adult sycophants and constant praise’.

Nigel Plum played super tough for the Panthers until his head failed but never made a rep team. If he played rugby, he’d have been WB captain at 17.

Yes it was very disappointing that he didn’t play at school this year, because an injury might disrupt his contract negotiations. However, the Covid situation did play a part in that. I do like the pathway that the schoolboys/u18s and the U20s offers, but I think that unless these players are actually ready to be picked in the franchise top teams, or there is a junior fixture on, they should be sent out to play club rugby EVERY Saturday. Save the development shit for Wednesday arvos or something.

 

[KiwiM]

Here is some food for thought.

Mounga is only just now starting to put his stamp on test rugby. He is 26 and debuted for Crusaders in 2016.

Lolesio is 20 and only debuted in Super Rugby in 2020. He needs time.

I remember a young Aaron Cruden debuting at 10 for ABs in 2010 in Sydney and being hooked fairly early as he was poor. He developed into a quality test 10.

In hindsight I think an experienced 12 is the way to go. Easier said than done without To'omua though. He's not experienced in test rugby but Hamish Stewart I thought was excellent at 12 for Reds.

I'd also think about Naisarani at 8 and Wilson at 6. McReight looked good.

Daugunu should let his play do the talking - the talk during the week was weird.

For the ABs Smith Mounga, ALB best of the backs and Whitelock and Coles best of the forwards. Sotutu in his first start was very tidy. Some of the ABs bench were a huge step down from the players they replaced though - Perenara and Taylor.

 

[molman]

Yeah I agree.
But I’d already thrown Noah and DHP under the bus so I thought I’d stop there.
If JOC (James O'Connor) is still out and with To'omua out for the season we’re really exposing our lack of depth.
Paisami/Petaia would be my midfield but 10 is a real dilemma.
I’d be tempted to put hodge at 15 and play the SAF game from a few years back. Kick it long and into the stands every touch and play the tight game in their half.

Depends if you see it as the win at all costs or playing for the future. If the later then question becomes is Noah the future 10 for the Wallabies? If so you potentially give him another run.

I'm not sure Hodge at 10 really excites me. After watching Maddocks play against the Argies yestrerday I do wonder if he'd ever be a prospect at 10.

 

[Kenny Powers]

That would all be nice, but how does that really work in a competitive landscape when you have other codes locking up talent whilst at school. 17year olds like Sua'ali'i who will never play in SS because he will be earning a multimillion dollar contract with Souths in the NRL.

I look at it from this perspective

- tight five no interest from league can’t cross over
- no7 probably too small for league
- no6 & 8 a chance of playing league
- halfback can’t remember too many converts either way in this space
- rest of the backline would attract varying degrees of interest to league

So I reckon only half the positions in a rugby team would be of interest to league.

So on these players yes it will be hard to compete with league and RA doesn’t have the money. So spend the money wisely spread it around and create a bigger pool to draw from. Betting the housekeeping money on one or two teenage rockstars who are still to play a senior game against men where they will not physically and athletically dominate to the same extent as they have done at schoolboy . I would want to observe how they react and respond to that challenge prior to paying some of the money that is talked about these days for kids who have only ever played in under age rugby or league teams.