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Bledisloe 2. Eden Park, 24th Sept 7.05pm NZT. 5.05 pm AEST, 3.05 WA

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Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
My thoughts on the performance. Forwards serviceable backs not.

I hope this has shown the selectors the 2nd tier /mid 20s players are not up to the task and to start thinking about bringing on the next generation on the northern tour and RWC with a view to 2027. But what would I know?
The forwards got rolled in the scrum, at the lineout and at the breakdown. Backs were not great either.
Gordon stifles the attack. He doesn’t seem to have a decent feel of the game. He does one out stuff that is great but there is no flow to the game with him at nine like there is with White or Tate.
Wright also kills any momentum we have.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
By being around the ones who can perform, perhaps they'll see what is required in terms of preparation and attitude. Of course, I acknowledge this depends on being someone (anyone?) who can perform under pressure at an international level.


Not this years under 20’s I hope?
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
A few thoughts from last night:

1) It seemed to me that what little attack we had fell apart completely when Foketi went off. I still don't know why they brought Petaia on into the centers instead of Hodge.
2) On Petaia, I'm just not convinced. When was his last great (or good) game in gold? His 2019RWC debut?
3) I don't know how we solve our discipline issues, its so bad now that I feel we also get penalized because we are know for poor discipline
4) The fact that we cannot put in two consistent games is deeply concerning. Is it that teams can adapt to our game plan too easily? Are we playing too one dimensional?
5) I cant see us getting to a final in 12 months. At this rate I'm not sure I can see us winning 50% on the EOYT
6) Maybe its because I just watched Gold Digger, but I almost want us to start to pick and stick with the core of a team. Pick a 9,10,12,15 and play them for the next 5 years in preparation of 2025
7) I haven't lost the love yet, but man its hard being a Wallabies fan.
6) So by 2027 (5 years from now) we should be ok for 2025?

Excuse my little dig. I understand what you're saying and hope to see a bit more consistency in selections from now to RWC23 and beyond.

4) I agree. Our plan seems to be to kick the ball on first or second phase in the first half, ie play for territory. Just how successful that is we can see by the amount of time play is in our half of the ground and the time oppositions are hammering away at our try line. It doesn't and won't work while we are outgunned in the kicking department. That includes one dimensional box kicking from our own side of halfway, poor or non-existent kick/chase, and reluctance to compete for the ball in the air. Generally, our penalty kicks for touch are considerably shorter than opposition kicks or fail to find touch when longer kicks are attempted. So, we are not well equipped to implement a territory based plan and in most cases we concede a large margin of points in the first half of games.

Our outside backs only seem to see the ball late in the second half of games. That is too late to be competitive and hence we have a failing game plan.

On an associated topic, whenever we are camped on the opposition try line, we revert to forwards hitting the ball up one off the ruck or pick and drives. We invariably will attempt to bash our way across the line and in the majority of cases will simply lose the ball or concede a penalty. Two hit ups should be sufficient to compress the defence a bit, then swing the ball to the backs who are after all the attacking weapons who can get over the chalk (and then in some instances drop it of fail to ground it; but that's where the attack should be happening).

The game plan needs a complete revision and layers of sophistication added.
 
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Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
I’m not sold on Noah as being the answer. I would give Donaldson and Edmed time in the A games as well and take the 2 best performers of the 3 on the EOYT.
KOB I think Donaldson and Edmed are about on par with Noah in talent but obviously a bit behind on experience atm. I reckon the best of the lot might be sitting behind your duo at the Tahs, in Jack Bowen. I was very impressed with his performances in the U20s (?) tournament this year and his form for the development side yesterday was outstanding. He owned the game in the second half and had the Tahs' backline humming.
 

KOB1987

John Eales (66)
Nah, Donaldson and Edmed only come into contention if we lose Foley, Lolesio and possibly Hodge…
I think it’s a big risk to put all our eggs in the Noah basket is my point. Hodge is a break glass in case of emergency at 10 - more than capable in those circumstances but he is not the answer.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I’m not sold on Noah as being the answer. I would give Donaldson and Edmed time in the A games as well and take the 2 best performers of the 3 on the EOYT.
He is the best we have, playing in the best franchise who have now taken over the wobs coaching

The other 2 aren't at his level
 

Prodigy

Ron Walden (29)
Yeah, I agree that we need to look to the future and the 2027 RWC from here. If Dave Rennie isn't the man to take us that far, make sure one of his assistants is the one who will.
I like the idea of Dan McKellar, but is Stephen Larkham out of the frame?
I'd be looking at who is a performer and who isn't. I'd take an extended squad on the EOYT and try to get some mid-week games. Still trying to win test matches, but use the mid-week games to blood new players with the assistant coaches taking the reins. It would almost be two tours with smaller squads.
TEST TEAM
1. Slipper 2. Fainga'a 3. Tupou 4. Phillip 5. Leota 6. Samu 7. Hooper (c) 8. Valetini 9. White 10. Cooper 11. Korobeite 12. Kerevi 13. Ikitau 14. Vunivalu 15. Kellaway 16. Porecki 17. Alalaatoa 18. Sio 19. Holloway 20. Arnold 21. McDermott 22. Paisami 23. Hodge
MID-WEEK TEAM
1. Bell 2. L. Loneragan 3. Holz 4. Frost 5. Swain 6. Anstee 7. McReight 8. Wilson 9. R. Loneragan10. Lolesio 11. Toole/Sua'ali'i 12. Foketi 13. Petaia 14. Nawaqanitawase 15. Campbell 16. Pollard 17. Robertson18. HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) 19. Smith 20. Harris 21. Goddard 22. Edmed 23. Stewart
DEVELOPMENT PLAYERS
Pasitoa (Inside Backs), Jackson Pugh (Lock), Matt Gibbon (Front Row), Lachlan Anderson (Outside Backs)
 

KOB1987

John Eales (66)
The level of looking near test level, even their aus a efforts weren't worthy of a call up where others were
I’m not suggesting selecting them to play against Ireland & France. I’m saying pick one of them to go on the tour for experience, possibly bench v Italy. Our current setups aren’t working so we need to explore the alternatives beyond Foley and Lolesio.
 

KOB1987

John Eales (66)
If only there was some kind of competition that existed to pit these players against each other, and we could use those performances to judge whether they should be selected for the next level?
I’ll reiterate
I’m not suggesting selecting them to play against Ireland & France. I’m saying pick one of them to go on the tour for experience, possibly bench v Italy. Our current setups aren’t working so we need to explore the alternatives beyond Foley and Lolesio.
 

runningrugbyrules

Fred Wood (13)
Wallabies v All Blacks (2 Tests)

Jake Gordon at No.9 = NZ 13-58

Nic White at No.9 = OZ 31-21

Same old problem with Australian rugby, different franchises play different styles of rugby. With 10 Brumbies in the team, the upbeat fast paced tempo suits them with a Brumby No.9 dictating pace n speed of play. Put a Waratah at 9 and as the Waratahs play slow 10 man rugby with slow play and kicking a priority with box kicks etc. These differing styles of play even mean different fitness levels, as some as used to playing at faster pace.

All kiwi franchises are owned by All Blacks, they dictate the style of play and even chose coaches to make that happen. All Kiwi teams thus play very similar tempo games and tactics. Australian teams all play differently thus why we can’t play well together.
 

Lightblue

Arch Winning (36)
Yeah, I agree that we need to look to the future and the 2027 RWC from here. If Dave Rennie isn't the man to take us that far, make sure one of his assistants is the one who will.
I like the idea of Dan McKellar, but is Stephen Larkham out of the frame?
I'd be looking at who is a performer and who isn't. I'd take an extended squad on the EOYT and try to get some mid-week games. Still trying to win test matches, but use the mid-week games to blood new players with the assistant coaches taking the reins. It would almost be two tours with smaller squads.
TEST TEAM
1. Slipper 2. Fainga'a 3. Tupou 4. Phillip 5. Leota 6. Samu 7. Hooper (c) 8. Valetini 9. White 10. Cooper 11. Korobeite 12. Kerevi 13. Ikitau 14. Vunivalu 15. Kellaway 16. Porecki 17. Alalaatoa 18. Sio 19. Holloway 20. Arnold 21. McDermott 22. Paisami 23. Hodge
MID-WEEK TEAM
1. Bell 2. L. Loneragan 3. Holz 4. Frost 5. Swain 6. Anstee 7. McReight 8. Wilson 9. R. Loneragan10. Lolesio 11. Toole/Sua'ali'i 12. Foketi 13. Petaia 14. Nawaqanitawase 15. Campbell 16. Pollard 17. Robertson18. HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) (Harry Johnson-Holmes) 19. Smith 20. Harris 21. Goddard 22. Edmed 23. Stewart
DEVELOPMENT PLAYERS
Pasitoa (Inside Backs), Jackson Pugh (Lock), Matt Gibbon (Front Row), Lachlan Anderson (Outside Backs)
What are you talking about? The tour is organised way ahead. There are no mid week games for this years EOYT.
 

Lightblue

Arch Winning (36)
He is the best we have, playing in the best franchise who have now taken over the wobs coaching

The other 2 aren't at his level
Waratahs will be the best franchise next year. Just saying. Next seasons Super Rugby form will see new selections and possibilities for World Cup side. We aren’t washed up yet.
 

Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
Wallabies v All Blacks (2 Tests)

Jake Gordon at No.9 = NZ 13-58

Nic White at No.9 = OZ 31-21

Same old problem with Australian rugby, different franchises play different styles of rugby. With 10 Brumbies in the team, the upbeat fast paced tempo suits them with a Brumby No.9 dictating pace n speed of play. Put a Waratah at 9 and as the Waratahs play slow 10 man rugby with slow play and kicking a priority with box kicks etc. These differing styles of play even mean different fitness levels, as some as used to playing at faster pace.

All kiwi franchises are owned by All Blacks, they dictate the style of play and even chose coaches to make that happen. All Kiwi teams thus play very similar tempo games and tactics. Australian teams all play differently thus why we can’t play well together.
I think you hit the nail on the head. For all the reasons you state I thought Foketi would also have issues fitting in, but he seemed to go pretty well and pop up at the end of movements all of the time. The Wallabies play is a blended hot mess of Brumbies and Waratahs with a little Reds thrown in.
Personally I think they should be playing the Brumbies brand of footy, which has been so successful for them and is suited to test rugby. Set piece forwards oriented game with some speed out wide and decent kicking. If we are not laden with crazy amounts of talent then play a simple game. Kellaway, Philip, McReight, Kerevi, Koriebete etc can all play that game effectively. Whitey needs to be at 9.
 
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