Bledisloe #2 - AUS v NZL, Eden Park, Auckland, August 15th

[Viking]

I don't mind if Phipps gets another shot (and I'm a Brumbies supporter), his speed and tempo is second to none when he isn't throwing wayward passes or giving away silly penalties - but those things can be fixed.

I think its time for Foley to be given the boot. I think there are 2 clear combo's left that we need to decide on:

10. To'omua 12. Gits
10. Cooper 12. To'omua

To'omua needs to start. He has been superb.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is a lock on the wing but I agree it could be a good time to rest him so we can inject Speight.

As good as Horne is, clearly a Test standard player, Unfortunately I don't see a place for him in the team any further. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchell offer more, Tomane probably in better form and Speight deserves his chance - if Speight fails then maybe.

 

[Highlander35]

In terms of backs, I'd probably go for:

9. White
10. To'omua
11. Mitchell/Speight
12. Giteau
13. Kuridrani
14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Speight
15. Folau

21. Phipps
22. Cooper
23. Horne/Beale?tomane

I think that the halves that won the game should be rewarded. Both Gits and Mitchell have been good enough to warrant one more chance, Gits is definitely this game, if they're ineligible for the States game (dunno with Boudejall being psycho) it should be Mitchell's too. Otherwise Speight gets a chance, Cooper should get a chance with To'omua (swapping on for Gits about 55 minutes in). and think about resting 2dads if he's not in the starting 15.

 

[Pfitzy]

To'omua in at 10 to be the straight man to Giteau's crab. Other than that, change as little as possible.

 

[Lindommer]

My two cents' worth:

1. Sio
2. Moore (c)
3. Kepu
4. Simmons/Mumm
5. Horwill
6. Fardy
7. Pocock
8. Palu/McCalman
9. White
10. To'omua
11. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
12. Leali'ifano
13. Kuridrani
14. Speight
15. Folau

16. TPN
17. Slipper
18. Holmes
19. Skelton
20. Hooper
21. Phipps
22. Horne/Tomane
23. Beale

Reasoning:

• This front row looks like it could solve our scrummaging woes in the eyes of NH refs. Backup FR is excellent.
• Mumm's in the RWC squad on the back of his last two gold performances, Simmons' presence is needed to fix up our lineout; Horwill needs a touch more TGC medicine. However, if Rob's done his scaphoid I'd wager he won't be back pre-RWC.
• Palu needs a run; if he's not 100%, McCalman.
• The ABs will work out a counter to the Pooper in this match, let's save it for the second half.
• TGC should know by now if Giteau's up to it, or not. Time to see how Leali'ifano goes wearing 12.
• The Brumbies backs all deserve a chance to show their wares, especially Speight.
• Phipps and Foley don't turn into crap players overnight, they put in one bad performance. A lot of their inaccuracies can be fixed up on the training paddock.
• Without being unkind to Genia and Cooper, their Super performances don't warrant their selections in front of others. It'd seem there just hasn't been enough time to bring them up to speed. Maybe the test against the Septics?

That looks as good as yesterday's team, if a little more traditional.

 

[wamberal]

The trouble is, we do not play the ABs on the training paddock.


Foley has always been a bit flakey IMHO.


His kicking out of hand, for example, is dreadful. And we won't talk about his kicking from the spot, will we?

 

[KOB1987]

NZ v Aus would be the dream GF but to set it up you'll need to lose to Ringinland in your Pool then beat Samoa or Scotland in your QF & Argentina, France or most likely Ireland in your SF. We meanwhile will need to knock over probably France in our QF (in Cardiff of all places) then England or the Bokke.

no, to get that weaker path (Scotland or Samoa) we need to win our pool otherwise we will more than likely come up against the Saffas in the quarters. But the rest is correct. An Aus v NZ final is very likely if we both win our pools.

 

[jollyswagman]

Just had a quick read of Bob's article on the GAGR front page. He made a few interesting comments and his suggestion of moving Gits to #10, TK to #12 and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to #13 would be worth a shot IMHO.

At the very least it would save us all the Foley V Cooper V To'omua debate this week

 

[Gnostic]

I think people calling for Speight and Horne on the wing/s do not understand why Mitchell has got the starts he has. Unless Speight or Horne have learnt to kick far better than they have previously have shown I just don't see a place for them, lest the Wallabies get hamstrung into a situation like afflicted the Tahs and Wallabies last year.

For the same reason I don't think that Tomane has a place. There is no doubt Tomane and Horne were the best running wingers in Australia this year, and Horne one of the best defenders, but that was just not enough for the Tahs or the Wallabies last year. The test side just has to have kicking options at the back.

 

[Froggy]

I think we're getting close.
To'omua to start at 10, Leliafarno on to the bench, Foley watching on tv, apart from the I'd change nothing.

 

[Highlander35]

Lilo is supposedly going to Tokyo to play in the world XV match against Japan.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Don't want to see too many changes as we have just the beaten the All Blacks......

Simmons comes back in - so Horwill or Mumm drop back to the bench. Skelton might actually drop out of the 23....assuming mccalman retains other non front row forward bench option...

Phipps had a shocker and White had a blinder so may be a warrant to have Phipps on bench and white to start....noting Phipps having one very poor game does not make him a bad player (as only recently had very good game against Boks coming on from the bench).

To'omua worked a treat as bench option but yes seeing how starts at 10 may be the go..

We now seem to have starting and reserve front row sorted..as we do with fardy, hooper and pocock as starting 6,7,8

Mitchell did enough to show retains position as did not have much room to move....Beale likewise as backup Wing/FB bench option

 

[cyclopath]

I'm pretty sure Simmons is still out for next week, scaphoid injury.

 

[disco]

Pretty sure Simmons is out until the USA match.

1-8 I wouldn't change.

For the backs I'd stick with Phipps because I feel Barnes (who I like as a ref) didn't ping the AB's for flopping on to our side of the ruck. Although I really want him to cut out that niggle bullshit he does every week.
I do want to see Henry Speight but I do also agree with Gnostic & the fact that Drew Mitchell's left boot does give us another kicking option when clearing the 22.

Still would like to see this backline & bench next week for the decider.

9.Phipps 10.To'omua 11.Speight 12.Giteau 13.TK 14.AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 15.Foloau
16.TPN 17.Slipper 18.Holmes 19.Skelton 20.McCalman 21.White 22.Mitchell 23.Beale

I do wonder if the Ab's Will go with a backrow of 6.McCaw 7.Cane 8.Read to try & counter the Pooper.

 

[ChargerWA]

I do wonder if the Ab's Will go with a backrow of 6.McCaw 7.Cane 8.Read to try & counter the Pooper.

If so that'd be quite an achievement by Cheika. To get the ABs to change their game plan to counter an opposition is something they haven't had to do for years.

But is suspect they won't, and they won't have to. They'll be back on track this week just to prove us doubters wrong again.

 

[Brumby Runner]

• Palu needs a run; if he's not 100%, McCalman.

Cliff came off the bench yesterday for Manly. Tried hard and played reasonably well. But he picked up a loose ball near the halfway line and set off for the tryline. He was running pretty much on one leg only. Looked like the left (I think) couldn't keep up with the body. Despite that apparent handicap, he made it to the tryline (Samo like) with Dennis in pursuit the whole way. Surprisingly, Dennis didn't make any impression on him at all.

Was a great moment in the game.

 

[Dan54]

(Phipps and Foley don't turn into crap players overnight, they put in one bad performance. A lot of their inaccuracies can be fixed up on the training paddock. )

Lindo, like youI wonder why people suddenly think after one bad game you change a couple of players that generally have been good for you as well, because you will never get a settled team if you do.

(If so that'd be quite an achievement by Cheika. To get the ABs to change their game plan to counter an opposition is something they haven't had to do for years.

But is suspect they won't, and they won't have to. They'll be back on track this week just to prove us doubters wrong again. )
Actually Charger, the Boks worked ABs over at breakdown using 2 opensides as well, so we may see a change, and think Meyer may want some credit too, in fact it maybe Cheika should thank Meyer for showing him the way??

 

[KOB1987]

Pretty sure Simmons is out until the USA match.

1-8 I wouldn't change.

For the backs I'd stick with Phipps because I feel Barnes (who I like as a ref) didn't ping the AB's for flopping on to our side of the ruck. Although I really want him to cut out that niggle bullshit he does every week.
I do want to see Henry Speight but I do also agree with Gnostic & the fact that Drew Mitchell's left boot does give us another kicking option when clearing the 22.

Still would like to see this backline & bench next week for the decider.

9.Phipps 10.To'omua 11.Speight 12.Giteau 13.TK 14.AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 15.Foloau
16.TPN 17.Slipper 18.Holmes 19.Skelton 20.McCalman 21.White 22.Mitchell 23.Beale

I do wonder if the Ab's Will go with a backrow of 6.McCaw 7.Cane 8.Read to try & counter the Pooper.

That's the side I reckon too, but Mitchell could be rested completely with Cooper given a run off the bench. Or Mitchell could start and 22. Beale and 23. Speight

 

[Viking]

(Phipps and Foley don't turn into crap players overnight, they put in one bad performance. A lot of their inaccuracies can be fixed up on the training paddock. )

Lindo, like youI wonder why people suddenly think after one bad game you change a couple of players that generally have been good for you as well, because you will never get a settled team if you do.

(If so that'd be quite an achievement by Cheika. To get the ABs to change their game plan to counter an opposition is something they haven't had to do for years.

But is suspect they won't, and they won't have to. They'll be back on track this week just to prove us doubters wrong again. )
Actually Charger, the Boks worked ABs over at breakdown using 2 opensides as well, so we may see a change, and think Meyer may want some credit too, in fact it maybe Cheika should thank Meyer for showing him the way??

It's not exactly one bad game and then being dropped. Quade only had one poor game too remember? It's the simply fact that none of the halves have put in a good performances yet.

Neither Quade or Foley deserves to be starting over the other - they simply haven't done enough.

Gits and To'omua have done enough to stake a claim - but whether Cheika views any of them as a 10 will decide whether Cooper or Foley gets another shot.

It's a toss of the coin between Cooper and Foley (on form) - but you'd probably put your money on Cheika to give Cooper a chance against the AB's.

 

[jollyswagman]

Regardless of whether or not folks think Phipps & Foley should or shouldn't be benched after their performances last Saturday, I have a hard time believing Cheika will keep them in the starting side given the "highly competitive" environment he has created. By chalking their performances up to a "bad night" he may well leave himself open to a good deal of criticism not too mention some frustration by those within the team that are jockeying for a starting jersey. Maybe they both did have a bad night but IMO neither have played so well that deserve a get-out-of-jail-free card.

Nic White played very well during his cameo and the fact of the matter is had he not kicked that penalty, nor scored that try, we could have seen a different result on Saturday. Phipps had a bad night and put the team under immense pressure at times. You could say he did a good deal to lose that game for us, whilst on the other hand White did everything he could have done to win it for us. Surely he deserves a crack as starting #9 this weekend.

With regards to #10, I agree that To'omua has been very strong off the bench for us and I think he would in fact be a good starting option. That said, starting To'omua at #10 does bring about another problem in we no longer can benefit from the positive impact at the end of the game. We have seen several other players move from the bench to the starting side (Phipps, Mumm etc) and in each case those players have failed have the same positive impact, or play as well, as they did coming off the bench. So what happens next week if we start To'omua and he has a fairly quite game or it is discovered that the To'omua / Giteau is not the cure for our back line ills......where do we go from there? To'omua is a must have in my 23 but I still believe that Cooper should get a shot at the AB's at Eden Park. He if can perform in that high pressure environment, in front of a very hostile crowd, it would be great preparation for the RWC. Larkham has a lot more faith in QC (Quade Cooper) than most people appreciate and I would be very surprised if he does not run on this weekend. Now with all of that said, if he does get a run and has a shocker then leave him at home for the RWC. Make this his last-chance-saloon game because after this weekend I think our best 15 & 23 respectively should be set for the RWC.

 

[Braveheart81]

It seems like Foley or Cooper will either start or not be in the 23.

To'omua and Giteau should start and be on the bench respectively for the 12 jersey.

Beale looks like he will stay in the 23 jersey.

I'd be surprised if Cheika mixes things up too much this week.