Bledisloe #2 - AUS v NZL, Eden Park, Auckland, August 15th

[fatprop]

It's my distinct impression that the scrum which had been at least competitive, maybe even dominant, while Horwill was on, just went to pieces after Horwill was replaced. I don't think Douglas had the necessary impact in this regard. But I'd be happy for someone to give an account of how the scrum went with different pairings of locks during the game.

You are mixing up job description with effectiveness

My point wasn't really saying Douglas was "good" or "bad" just stating that this is what he does as a lock and a general comment that lock type isn't appreciated in aus.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Douglas's role is to cleanout in attack and defense, make his tackles, take his ball at the lineout and push hard in the scrums for 80 minutes, essentially the tight work not appreciated by many.

I'm not under appreciating his role, just noting its not a replacement for Simmons.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Yeah, but the word out of the Wallaby camp was that Douglas was brought in for Simmons' absence (i.e. maybe the coaching staff see him as more like for like than others??). I think that was KOB's point.

Yeah more of purely a numbers thing. 1 of 4 locks down. Bring in another to make 4 available.

 

[KAOPointman]

Harder without spidercam but mainly it was a good contest - both sides a bit creaky on their own ball, but no real points decision to be made.

Biggest difference for me this week was positional changes: Horwill was TH lock last week and we got good drive. Skelton was there this week and we lost a bit of momentum I think.

However, that needs considered in the light of no Romano, who I don't rate at the core work of a TH lock. Instead Retallick was back to his familiar #5 position and Whitelock to LH lock. They work together well as a unit and have done for the last few years.

Not just spider cam.........who controls the replays. I took note and the only replays were AB advantages. Not once was there a replay of a dubious descission against the wallabies, like some of those scrum collapses....but the second there was a possible wallaby knock on....bam, replay after replay. (Foxtel coverage)
Last weeks coverage seemed to show replays of every event no matter who seemed at fault. This issue plagued super rugby this year. Let's hope I'm just totally blind. Lol
Cooper had a pretty fair game considering everyone else's performances. His kicking was ace, passing was good and his only bad descission was a knee jerk reaction that I feel was a tad unlucky to go to the bin Aswell as a P try. His arm was over his shoulder and on the ball, and only contacted the head/neck when Smith ducked under,making it look bad. That's my view anyway.
To sum up that game....piggies didn't front up...simple!!

 

[Viking]

Speight isn't in the team for his defence. He's supposed to be a game changer. If it ain't coming his way go find it. A S15 star but so far on international duties only a showcase for Vidal Sasson hair products. That is to say a waste of our time.

Actually he is in it for his defence. Larkham stated before the match he rated him as "one of the best defenders in the world", An ideal match up with Savea one of the best attackers in the world - who I might add had a quiet night - probably because of Speight.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was just as bad. Horne, Tomane, Cummins would have offered nothing better on attack either.

It was not a wingers game to shine on attack.

 

[KOB1987]

Yeah more of purely a numbers thing. 1 of 4 locks down. Bring in another to make 4 available.

Don't shoot the messenger. Interpret it how you like but my interpretation was that he's essentially been brought in to help with the lineout woes in the event Simmons is unavailable. As Cyclo said it was word from within the camp, I think it was posted on this thread somewhere late in the week. Whether it was reliable or not I can't comment on. I didn't notice how the lineout went once he came on but I suspect Cheika would have been looking at that aspect of play with eager eyes if that was the main reason for his potential inclusion in the RWC squad.

 

[Viking]

I am not a great AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) fan, but AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can kick and is reasonably reliable under the high ball. Speight can't kick for shit and Folau though he has kicked a few times recently has an action that makes him unreliable as an exit kicker where he could easily be charged.

The argument is that the back three can carry only one non reliable kicker. Think the Reds with Digby, 91 Wallabies with Edgerton, 99 Wallabies with Tune. All successful Australian sides have had two kickers in the back three excepting the 2014 Tahs and that got shown up big time this year in two losses to the Force and the semi loss.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) also involved himself in this game more than Speight and got more run metres and made no glaring defensive misses. I don't get how you say he was worse?

No glaring defences misses? Did you watch the game? AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) slipped over and it lead directly to Cole's try, easily beaten by a bloody hooker 40metres out and then he gave up immediately and didn't even bother chasing. He made a loads of mistakes and missed tackles.

I agree he involved himself more on attack, slightly. But defence and errors were woeful last night. I admit uncharacteristically poor from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - wouldn't drop him, still first choice but boy I was disappointed last night.

 

[Ruggo]

If you re-read my comment i didnt say there was anything ungracious about your comment. I was making a suggestion as to how we might consider the result.



This is what I dont get, do you seriously think that you know better than a professional coaching group of a national team? Like I say, had Cheika run on an unchanged team, and we lost by a similar margin (likely IMO), the couch-coaches would have been claiming it was poor selection to play the same team twice!

No, I would of said we got beaten by a better team on the night but I don't accept the premise that it was a likely result. We mind as well throw in the towel now with that attitude. I think we squandered a great opportunity by making the changes we did. I don't claim to know better than the Wallaby coaches but I don't see any logic behind the changes we made. It looks like changes for the sake of changes. Why did Cheika add size and slow down our pack dynamic when there is hardly any secret that NZ would up the tempo? Why do you think he did that? It's a forum of discussion so let us know your thoughts other than to basically say the Wallaby coach is teflon and he shouldn't be questioned. Is the Wallaby coach immune to tactical error and beyond questioning?

 

[Lorenzo]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) got badly burned at least twice last night. He would make my 23 but he's not the shutdown defensive winger that he's sometimes made out to be on here.

He's 31 years old and probably slowing down a bit, given that he's a winger.

 

[Bullrush]

One name - Pocock.

I don't think there was a Wallaby turn-over until the 2nd half. Pocock came on and bagged one.

There is just no way any Wallaby team should be starting without him if he's fit - it's that simple.He is a game changer and the guy in your forward pack who no other Test team really wants to see.

I really don't see how you can be serious about winning the Bledisloe while benching him. If you want balance in your pack and your back row, blah blah blah - you start with Pocock first and make it balance around him.

 

[RugbyReg]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is one of the first names on the team sheet for mine.

Alphabetically at least.

 

[Train Without a Station]

One name - Pocock.

I don't think there was a Wallaby turn-over until the 2nd half. Pocock came on and bagged one.

There is just no way any Wallaby team should be starting without him if he's fit - it's that simple.He is a game changer and the guy in your forward pack who no other Test team really wants to see.

I really don't see how you can be serious about winning the Bledisloe while benching him. If you want balance in your pack and your back row, blah blah blah - you start with Pocock first and make it balance around him.

Yep. I was doubtful over his influence but he has shown it very much every game whilst also improving his running game dramatically.

Hooper only has the high involvement rate over him now, but that was never a huge drop to Pocock either anyway. I think the Bled 1 pack with Simmons over Mumm is our best pack.

 

[Viking]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is one of the first names on the team sheet for mine.

No-one is questioning his inclusion in the squad, just acknowledging his uncharacteristically poor performance last night.

 

[Train Without a Station]

People talk about the QC (Quade Cooper) Eden park hoodoo but AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has played 2 quite poor games in a row there now.

Does that change anything? Absolutely not. Just noting how differently things are perceived when a player is perceived as a good bloke by the masses.

 

[Viking]

No, I would of said we got beaten by a better team on the night but I don't accept the premise that it was a likely result. We mind as well throw in the towel now with that attitude. I think we squandered a great opportunity by making the changes we did. I don't claim to know better than the Wallaby coaches but I don't see any logic behind the changes we made. It looks like changes for the sake of changes. Why did Cheika add size and slow down our pack dynamic when there is hardly any secret that NZ would up the tempo? Why do you think he did that? It's a forum of discussion so let us know your thoughts other than to basically say the Wallaby coach is teflon and he shouldn't be questioned. Is the Wallaby coach immune to tactical error and beyond questioning?

I agree. Logically it was a poor choice. The forwards dominated last Bled and the backs didn't. The logical thing to do is keep what worked and change what didn't. So keep the forwards and think about changing the backs.

He choose to be experimental and/or tactical. It failed.

I'm not too sure what to think about Cheika at this stage but I'm not riding him off yet either.

 

[Tahtrajic]

No-one is questioning his inclusion in the squad, just acknowledging his uncharacteristically poor performance last night.

You got it right there AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) had an average game it's the first really average game he's had in a gold jersey I can remember. But he wasn't alone there. It's hard to think of any wallaby that had a good game.

 

[Miggie]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was miserable. Stood up by a hooker in open play. Doesn't get a lot more embarrassing.

 

[cyclopath]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Cooper both got shown up by their boots - both losing footing at key times. Both seemed to have standard moulded soles, not longer sprigs. A common Wallaby shortfall. Inexcusable at this level to have inadequate footwear in greasy conditions.

 

[Marcelo]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was miserable. Stood up by a hooker in open play. Doesn't get a lot more embarrassing.

Yeah, the first try was his fault buuuut we can't blame him because he's one of the most reliable players, a bad night may have any.

We should blame for players like Palu, Cooper, Foley, Phipps, etc,etc.

If Lopeti plays the WC for Tonga would be a real catastrophe

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

One name - Pocock.

I don't think there was a Wallaby turn-over until the 2nd half. Pocock came on and bagged one.

There is just no way any Wallaby team should be starting without him if he's fit - it's that simple.He is a game changer and the guy in your forward pack who no other Test team really wants to see.

I really don't see how you can be serious about winning the Bledisloe while benching him. If you want balance in your pack and your back row, blah blah blah - you start with Pocock first and make it balance around him.

I'll pay that, but did also say that all our best footy this season has been when he and Hooper have been on the paddock at the same time. I think it's clear now that at the very least he and probably Hooper must start if we're to be any chance at the RWC.