Bledisloe #2 - AUS v NZL, Eden Park, Auckland, August 15th

[emuarse]

No, I don't think that is the point BamBam was trying to make. It is not about being crap and getting dropped, rather if neither White nor Genia had put in standout performances and he only wanted to take two halves to the RWC, then it would make sense to take Genia over White.

Genia has had a half game against the Springbok before going off with a knee injury which who knows hampered him for how long in that half. He played OK but nothing out of the box.
White last weekend came on for what, 12 mins & had a blinder. Cheika I think is showing the smarts. He wants to see White get some real game time to allow Cheika to make an informed decision, in that Phipps also came on when the opposition were becoming weary against the 'bok and also put on a blinder. But was only ok against the Argies, and we all know how he played last weekend.
The halves for the RWC team is a real poser. If White plays a good game, I'm predicting he & Genia (assuming near injury recovery) will get the coaches' nod.

 

[Groucho]

So Kane Douglas is really in your best match day 22 give his injuries and lack of game time?


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He may be in Cheika's starting 15.

 

[Slim 293]

Genia has had a half game against the Springbok before going off with a knee injury which who knows hampered him for how long in that half. He played OK but nothing out of the box.
White last weekend came on for what, 12 mins & had a blinder. Cheika I think is showing the smarts. He wants to see White get some real game time to allow Cheika to make an informed decision, in that Phipps also came on when the opposition were becoming weary against the 'bok and also put on a blinder. But was only ok against the Argies, and we all know how he played last weekend.
The halves for the RWC team is a real poser. If White plays a good game, I'm predicting he & Genia (assuming near injury recovery) will get the coaches' nod.

Phipps was also excellent agains the Boks...

As long as White doesn't have a complete meltdown, he and Phipps are guaranteed for the RWC with Genia getting his 60th cap against the USA.

 

[Groucho]

I'd call that a wet-weather looking pack if not for the fact that we're basically conceding the lineout. The ABs should get a lot of mileage out of kicking for touch and I'm not sure there'll be much we can do about it. As far as scrums go this has to be Skelton's chance to stand up and prove the doubters wrong, given that he's the only difference in our tight 5 to last week's dominant scrummaging display.

I'm expecting the ABs to spend a lot more time trucking it up the guts, since that was their biggest tactical criticism last week and the conditions should suit it. Pick'n'goes and crashball from Nonu. If that's the case then playing a big, heavy forward pack makes a lot of sense.

Skelton is far from his last chance.

 

[Pfitzy]

Who's next? There's Nic Stirzaker and Nick Frisby - that's it and neither inspire that much at Test level,

Probably because neither have played Test level?

 

[Tahtrajic]

I d

Because nevertheless Cheika will lose a scrumhalf next year. He could either grant Genia 2 more appearances and that would allow him to play for Wallabies next year or cut Genia and lose both White and Genia next year, ultimately leaving Phipps as the only scrumhalf in Australia. Scary thoughts.

i doubt Check is worried about next year. Beside Stirzacker had a great super season for the Rebels this year he can't have been far off getting a call up to have a run around in the training squad.

 

[JJJ]

Skelton is far from his last chance.

I guess by that I meant it's his last chance to show that he isn't the difference between a good scrum and a bad one before that view solidifies into gospel truth in the court of public opinion for the next couple of years.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

I'll hand in my prefects badge only if you hand in your fun-police one.

Well, if the following is your idea of fun then break out the motherfucking bunting, the best crystal, the best crockery and start ramming the whole lot up my bumcrack

Make sense. No? Well nor does all the other second guessing on here

I think both coaches have selected what they wanted given factors such as player management, their respective WC plans, and the situation at hand.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Well a few picked this sort of team (exception of Douglas)

No complaints from me....first and foremost as Cheika got us this far so one has to trust his selections at this point....and fact not afraid to tinker I kinda really like and respect....

Mitchell....ok thought would keep for bledisloe decider rather than starting spreight but beale on bench good insurance policy

Phipps out altogether...did not see that but also get that....confidence would have been shat after last game...he is on the RWC squad for sure but needs probably not to play after having confidence so shot after last game and giteau showed can sub here if needed.

Cooper to start - well last chance saloon with insurance with giteau on bench (he comes on at 12 and To'omua switches to 10)

Palu and skelton to start with mumm and pocock on bench....ok makes sense given if start skelton can't start both pocock/hooper....again got insurance policy here to enact early if fails......

Douglas on bench......well for me I am actually interested to see what has to offer given only cheika and other wallabies players and staff seen what have to offer in training..

Overall what I like is got impact players with our finishers (and love SMH referred to them as this in naming the bench...how good is it to see focus on full 23 - what a masterstroke this has been as best use of full squad of 23 seen for a long time)......with Giteau, Beale and Mumm (Douglas may be of similar ilk but not seen what has to offer since return to oz shores).

Couple of question marks starting for me ie. Cooper, Palu, Skelton but got good insurance with finishers cover....and understand balance considerations...

What cheika selected in terms of full 23 squad makes sense to me....starters versus finishers some debate for me...but hey it means if starters don't perform - finishers get early start....so works for me...

Can't wait for Saturday's game.....AB's would be favourites and hard to bet against them but no doubt wallabies have belief they can win - hope they do obviously or at least come close....

Go the Wallabies

 

[Gnostic]

I'm not all that surprised by any of the selections except Douglas.

The only thing I can say there is my long time opposition to any player being selected to play for the Wallabies in a calendar year where they have not given service to Australian Rugby. That is before you even consider issues around proven form, injury and fitness.

The other thing that immediately came to my mind with the selection of Douglas, even in the squad, (and it did when Mumm was selected too) is what has Chieka seen in Luke Jones that he doesn't like or what he is lacking as the statistics would have him at the top of the tree in most aspects for Australian Locks. I am honestly mystified at that one.

The only concern I harbour in the team is a lack of back three kicking options. We are back to a situation where only AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can kick reliably in the back three. The other option is a shuffling around of positions to have Cooper or To'omua constantly dropping back to assist. On a wet pitch I would have thought an in depth exit strategy with multiple options would be a necessary selection criteria.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Phipps was also excellent agains the Boks.

As long as White doesn't have a complete meltdown, he and Phipps are guaranteed for the RWC with Genia getting his 60th cap against the USA.

Who knows what Cheika thinking as in many ways not a lot separating Genia, Phipps and White as all have their pluses and minuses but Cheika has limited no. of spots for final 31 RWC squad so if Giteau adequately serves as 9 cover than yes it probably makes sense to have two of White, Genia and Phipps with Giteau providing the third halfback cover for the one to drop out

Difficult decisions to make for Cheika....probably not seen enough to make those decisions but will have to make those sort of calls.

As it is for who will play 10....suggest cooper, foley and To'omua are still frontrunners for the RWC squad 10 cover.....

 

[saulityvi]

I'm not all that surprised by any of the selections except Douglas.

The only thing I can say there is my long time opposition to any player being selected to play for the Wallabies in a calendar year where they have not given service to Australian Rugby. That is before you even consider issues around proven form, injury and fitness.

The other thing that immediately came to my mind with the selection of Douglas, even in the squad, (and it did when Mumm was selected too) is what has Chieka seen in Luke Jones that he doesn't like or what he is lacking as the statistics would have him at the top of the tree in most aspects for Australian Locks. I am honestly mystified at that one.

The only concern I harbour in the team is a lack of back three kicking options. We are back to a situation where only AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can kick reliably in the back three. The other option is a shuffling around of positions to have Cooper or To'omua constantly dropping back to assist. On a wet pitch I would have thought an in depth exit strategy with multiple options would be a necessary selection criteria.

Im not at all conserned about kicking as Cooper and White will drop back and they can both hoof it enough for me.
Also Speight, Cooper and Folau are a major counter attacking threat. So don't expect the ABs to kick all that much.

Giteau didn't impress me at all at 9 last weekend, passes were loopy and not in front of receiver, but I reckon I can trust whatever strategy Cheika is implementing.

 

[Gnostic]

Im not at all conserned about kicking as Cooper and White will drop back and they can both hoof it enough for me.
Also Speight, Cooper and Folau are a major counter attacking threat. So don't expect the ABs to kick all that much.

Giteau didn't impress me at all at 9 last weekend, passes were loopy and not in front of receiver, but I reckon I can trust whatever strategy Cheika is implementing.

I don't think you understand the exit strategy issue.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I'm not all that surprised by any of the selections except Douglas.

The only thing I can say there is my long time opposition to any player being selected to play for the Wallabies in a calendar year where they have not given service to Australian Rugby. That is before you even consider issues around proven form, injury and fitness.

The other thing that immediately came to my mind with the selection of Douglas, even in the squad, (and it did when Mumm was selected too) is what has Chieka seen in Luke Jones that he doesn't like or what he is lacking as the statistics would have him at the top of the tree in most aspects for Australian Locks. I am honestly mystified at that one.

The only concern I harbour in the team is a lack of back three kicking options. We are back to a situation where only AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can kick reliably in the back three. The other option is a shuffling around of positions to have Cooper or To'omua constantly dropping back to assist. On a wet pitch I would have thought an in depth exit strategy with multiple options would be a necessary selection criteria.

Fair enough for your opinion about selecting players who have served Australian rugby but my views on this are different in that I believe major sporting codes are international and cross boundaries like soccer who always select for internationals players playing outside of australia.

International game where players have right to ply their trade overseas and think ARU taken a sensible approach with min. 60 test rule which saids you have to given due service to Australian Rugby but also not exclude players who have done this plying their trade for the riches of overseas.

Having a viable national team also important for generating popular support for our national team and rugby in general...

Having Giteau, Mitchell and Mumm available added lots to Oz rugby as next year will be with allowing AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Horwill, Genia etc to play for the wallabies if their form warrants it.

 

[saulityvi]

I don't think you understand the exit strategy issue.

What part of it I don't understand? We have the biggest boot on the field in White, both To'omua and Cooper do well, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has never let us down with a kick, Folau has been better this season. Is there not enough kickers? And Cheika suffles them in defence always so that is no news.

Mitchell kicked twice from hand in bled1 and one of them was abit dodgy.

 

[Gnostic]

If white is passing back from a 22 ruck he has Cooper or To'omua as options. I'd suggest that Cooper's kicking from hand, much like the rest of his game this year has been erratic. To'omua is reliable. Folau and Speight are not options. 22 exit strategy.

The kick return issue is a different thing. So if White drops back to return a kick with a kick, then I would suggest that Folau, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Speight will have to be the chasers, preferable Folau and Speight allowing the two kickers to hang back and be in position to receive a second return kick. Likely in a wet game and from the team that kicks the most in international rugby and that effectively removes/ reduces the risk to the opposition in the option of the running kick return.

 

[Gnostic]

Fair enough for your opinion about selecting players who have served Australian rugby but my views on this are different in that I believe major sporting codes are international and cross boundaries like soccer who always select for internationals players playing outside of australia.

International game where players have right to ply their trade overseas and think ARU taken a sensible approach with min. 60 test rule which saids you have to given due service to Australian Rugby but also not exclude players who have done this plying their trade for the riches of overseas.

Having a viable national team also important for generating popular support for our national team and rugby in general.

Having Giteau, Mitchell and Mumm available added lots to Oz rugby as next year will be with allowing AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Horwill, Genia etc to play for the wallabies if their form warrants it.

Soccer internationals are a joke to start with (with the whole friendlies thing) and until recently the domestic competition in Australia wasn't even professional and hence couldn't compete with the other sides during the real competitions. So it is apples and oranges.

I don't have a problem with the 60 test rule, that is a fairly black and white and is a significant service to the local game, but Douglas is a long long way from that mark and didn't play a game in Australia this year. That is before we even discuss his lack of form, fitness and injury issues.

 

[Cpt Crow Eater]

Ok I waited for the shitstorm to calm down and I haven't read through every new page so apologies if I repeat anything covered (pleasures of living in Europe)

At first I was like "whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?" when I saw we made more changes than New Zealand. On reflection, I think it's great as strategically, popping out the same team would make it easier for the All Blacks coaching staff to counter as they know what to expect. Not sure about Douglas but very happy to see Speight.

As people have mentioned this may be Coopers last shot, but people on these forums have argued for a long time that one of the reasons Cooper can be ineffectual is because he has often played behind poorly performing packs giving him no front foot ball.

Finally we have some ascendancy in the forwards and I think this will give Cooper the best shot to tear shit up. I think Cheika has backed his depth, been good to his word about competition for spots is keeping the kiwis on their toes.

I think we will see a totally different game here to Sydney, I think the Wobs will try and use the rolling maul a lot (as the Argies showed works) hope for advantage in the scrums again and then give it to the backs to tear them apart.


tl:dr :
Cooper given better front foot ball from the forwards for better chance of opening Kiwis up

Cheika testing the All Blacks coaches mettle with a completely different game plan (great string to add to Wallabies bow)

Lots of rolling mauls and scrums to free up the backline and pressure the blicks.

Everyone says the Kiwis don't have two bad games but I don't think they have played brilliantly in any test this year. Definitely weaknesses there.

Not overly certain about Kane Ddouglas' inclusion but happy with Speight.

Wallabies by 10

 

[Groucho]

I'm not all that surprised by any of the selections except Douglas.

The only thing I can say there is my long time opposition to any player being selected to play for the Wallabies in a calendar year where they have not given service to Australian Rugby. That is before you even consider issues around proven form, injury and fitness.

The other thing that immediately came to my mind with the selection of Douglas, even in the squad, (and it did when Mumm was selected too) is what has Chieka seen in Luke Jones that he doesn't like or what he is lacking as the statistics would have him at the top of the tree in most aspects for Australian Locks. I am honestly mystified at that one.

The only concern I harbour in the team is a lack of back three kicking options. We are back to a situation where only AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can kick reliably in the back three. The other option is a shuffling around of positions to have Cooper or To'omua constantly dropping back to assist. On a wet pitch I would have thought an in depth exit strategy with multiple options would be a necessary selection criteria.

I think we're always going to have one playmaker constantly dropping back in defence. It's the system Cheika likes to play. Since To'omua's a defensive standout, that means it's Coopers turn in that role.

 

[Groucho]

I don't think you understand the exit strategy issue.

Hopefully Cheika does. Hopefully at least as well as the Internet does.