Bledisloe #2 - AUS v NZL, Eden Park, Auckland, August 15th

[Groucho]

Nah imo they rate Genia, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Pocock, Hooper, Moore, Folau, Beale tho not at 12, JOC (James O'Connor), Gits on a good day, TK I reckon, but of those they only fear Pocock, Hooper, Folau, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and on their day any of the three amigos. The dislike for Cooper is a tell. They don't rate him now, but they rubbished him to keep him down having feared he'd be the new evil wizard. Well that's my read having lived there for many years anyway.

I have to hold my hand up here. It was an ironic joke. People can stop correcting me now.

 

[qwerty51]

So based off those stats in the last 20 mins of matches which was also a big trend of the Tahs in their 2014 season - what can we take from it. I don't think we're any more cardiovascular fit than other teams, I think fitness levels would be pretty even between the top tier international sides these days. This is surely to do with Cheika's training style, physically flogging the players midweek and playing the same XVs regularly so that in the last 20 mins of the matches we're able to ramp up the physicality against more muscle fatiguing sides. Battle hardened.

 

[KOB1987]

So based off those stats in the last 20 mins of matches which was also a big trend of the Tahs in their 2014 season - what can we take from it. I don't think we're any more cardiovascular fit than other teams, I think fitness levels would be pretty even between the top tier international sides these days. This is surely to do with Cheika's training style, physically flogging the players midweek and playing the same XVs regularly so that in the last 20 mins of the matches we're able to ramp up the physicality against more muscle fatiguing sides. Battle hardened.

That and strategically bringing some of the A players off the bench (e.g. Slipper, Skelton, To'omua) instead of the norm of running on the A team and bringing the B players on later. That's a simplistic way of explaining it I know, but you know what I mean.

 

[Groucho]

So based off those stats in the last 20 mins of matches which was also a big trend of the Tahs in their 2014 season - what can we take from it. I don't think we're any more cardiovascular fit than other teams, I think fitness levels would be pretty even between the top tier international sides these days. This is surely to do with Cheika's training style, physically flogging the players midweek and playing the same XVs regularly so that in the last 20 mins of the matches we're able to ramp up the physicality against more muscle fatiguing sides. Battle hardened.

I tend to disagree. The physical floggings are undoubtedly contributing to the players' cardiovascular fitness, particularly their endurance. Cheika appears to train players harder then previous Wallaby coaches have. He might therefore be training them harder than other international coaches are currently training theirs. That's a risk of course (e.g. of injury, plus you can get tired performances during the intensive phase of the program) but at this stage it seems to be paying off.

 

[qwerty51]

I completely agree it's a risk. I'm still very worried about the RWC in terms of the semi and final if we make it. The number of minutes our top players have played this year and when you add in their training could be something like double our opponents. It could come back to bite us badly with some limp performances near the end. Especially when you consider it's England then Wales then quarters then semi then final consecutively.

 

[Joeleee]

While it could be a risk, I feel like the injury record of the Tahs over the last couple of years under Cheika has been FAR better than any of the previous 5-10 years, and probably better than for any of the other Australian Super franchises. Obviously there are other factors, but it doesn't seem far fetched to me that the extra work is making them less injury prone rather than more.

 

[Hawko]

Has George Smith ever rated by any other 'franchise nation' other than the Brumbies? Latham - Restalia? Pocock?

I think you make too much of the parochialism - most good players are well regarded here no matter where they come from. Well, from what I've seen anyway.

Here's a list (just off the top of my head) of good players that are regarded as hopeless in many parts of Australia:

TPN, Horwill, Mumm, Simmons, Skelton, McCalman, Hooper, Phipps, White, Genia, Cooper, Foley, Giteau, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (too slow, ball hog), Mitchell, Tomane, Horne, Beale.​

​

Any of them ring a bell?

 

[KOB1987]

Whatever the 23 man lineup is that is named tomorrow, I am going to have complete faith that is designed to win this match, and is NOT experimental and/or to give players game time.

 

[Groucho]

I completely agree it's a risk. I'm still very worried about the RWC in terms of the semi and final if we make it. The number of minutes our top players have played this year and when you add in their training could be something like double our opponents. It could come back to bite us badly with some limp performances near the end. Especially when you consider it's England then Wales then quarters then semi then final consecutively.

I agree it's a risk qwerty.

The conventional wisdom is that more rested players are better able to perform in those circumstances. The counter argument is that our players are the ones who might perform better in those circumstances, because having played more minutes, and trained harder, they'll be fitter.

Every innovation is (of course) greeted with scepticism by those who accept the conventional wisdom. Coaches who rest their players and taper their training will insist that's the way to do it, until someone wins by doing something different.

One thing we do know is that our injury rate is dramatically lower than in previous years.

Whichever way it pans out, it's a point of differerence.

 

[qwerty51]

While it could be a risk, I feel like the injury record of the Tahs over the last couple of years under Cheika has been FAR better than any of the previous 5-10 years, and probably better than for any of the other Australian Super franchises. Obviously there are other factors, but it doesn't seem far fetched to me that the extra work is making them less injury prone rather than more.

Yeah it's been great for injuries but I'm talking in terms of player fatigue through a match. When we lost to Argentina last year that was purely on fatigue. Our forwards made about 20 tackles each. Kepu and Slipper were in the high teens. I believe this is also why they got smashed in the scrum in the last Test of the year last year.

 

[pissedoffihavetoregister]

Won't they get a break after this next test and the USA test?
Also, the Saturday night forecast for d'auckland has got better as the thick rain clouds look to be going through earlier than expected. But there is some more on the way for Sunday which.....

 

[something]

in terms of the 10 situation we have to look at the 10-12 combination

what's worked well:
Cooper, To'omua
Foley, Beale
To'omua, Lilo

average/not properly tested:
Foley, Giteau - whilst foley played shit, they did beat the ABs.
To'omua, Beale - came on late a few times
Foley, To'omua - feel like they played together once? and it was pretty avg?

what's failed:
Foley, Cooper (arg)
Cooper, Giteau (rsa)

unknown:
To'omua, Giteau
Giteau, To'omua
Giteau, Beale
Foley, Lilo - Foley likes having a more creative 12, this could work.

I think either way To'omua will start at either 12 w cooper or 10 w Giteau. Personally i'd be looking at To'omua at 10 with Giteau and bring Beale on at the end. However, thats risky if To'omua goes down as you dont really want giteau and beale on at the same time (crabbing/defensive liability etc.)

For NZ. Sopoanga should start and bring Barrett on towards the end. Sucks for DC but thats rugby

 

[galumay]

Usually, I'd be right in the thick of discussions about who we should select and who we'd be fucking pants on head crazy to select etc etc leading up to something like a Bledisloe, let alone a decider. BUT...

For the first time in a long time, I don't really feel like contributing. Why? Because I'm pretty content in the confidence that Chieka will select a squad with a solid and considered plan in mind and they will, in all likelihood, go out and have a decent crack as a team. That's all I need.

Geez it's a good feeling!

Go you Wallabies!!!

Its a good point, I think if Cheika can keep the team on a winning course the couch-coaches will increasingly be silenced.

Its hilarious when you actually think about it, that we take ourselves so seriously that we actually think that somehow we would know better than the national coach and associated selection staff in a professional sport.

Sadly history tells me that if Cheika cant keep up the winning performance the couch-coaches will become more shrill and bloodthirsty with each loss!

Anyway as you say, "Go You Wallabies!!", I suspect Eden Park will be a mountain too high, but I will be happy if the team shows improvement and doesnt get revenge-smashed like last year!

 

[Brumby Runner]

This is surely to do with Cheika's training style, physically flogging the players midweek and playing the same XVs regularly so that in the last 20 mins of the matches we're able to ramp up the physicality against more muscle fatiguing sides. Battle hardened.

The same XV - so only looking at the starters. By my reckoning, in the three tests so far, only Moore, Kepu, Fardy, Hooper, Phipps, Kuridrani and Folau have started all three matches, and Moore, Kepu and Phipps are usually replaced before the last 15 - 20 minutes. Doesn't look like the same XV regularly playing to me,or that all of the regular starters are there at the end when the points have been scored. Unless I am missing some meaning in your post, I think we'd all better look for another reason for the manner in which the Wallabies have been winning at the end.

Edit "And AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) but that really doesn't make a difference to my point I believe.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Wallabies 2nd half scores:

24-13 vs New Zealand
26-3 vs Argentina
17-7 vs South Africa

Total: 67-23

Last 20 minutes:

17-5 vs New Zealand
15-0 vs Argentina
14-0 vs South Africa

Total: 46-5

It's a remarkable stat and one that we've been on the other side of a lot in the last few years. Cheika clearly works these guys hard and the Waratahs were no different in their championship year. I still don't think we've seen the best of this team in an attacking sense. Defensively, however, we seem to be getting better and better.

 

[disco]

Did the All Blacks only score both their tries while Phipps was in the bin?

 

[qwerty51]

Unless I am missing some meaning in your post, I think we'd all better look for another reason for the manner in which the Wallabies have been winning at the end.

We used the fewest amount of players in TRC and our players topped the Super Rugby minutes with no resting policy..

 

[Brumby Runner]

We used the fewest amount of players in TRC and our players topped the Super Rugby minutes with no resting policy..

I was aware of the situation in Super Rugby. I see now that you were speaking relative the other teams in the RC. Quite possibly an element of reality in what you've postulated. Anyway, long may it continue.

 

[Joe Blow]

Its the Bled, and its up for grabs.
Cheika needs to put out the side with the best possible chance of winning it.

It doesn't get any bigger than this!........ever

 

[Tip]

I would have thought that if Palu and Skelton are both in the matchday 23 it makes sense to start one and finish with the other for the reasons you've mentioned above. If Skelton starts he gets replaced by Horwill. If Palu starts he gets replaced by Pocock/Hooper.

I should add, I'd rather see a 6/2 bench split tested before RWC time, and now is the time to do it.

Wouldn't mind seeing this line up for the weekend. (Mumm/Horwill interchangeable)

4. Skelton 5. Mumm 6. Fardy 7. Hooper 8. Pocock

10. Cooper 12. To'omua
19. Horwill 20. Douglas 21. Palu 22. Giteau 23. Beale

Cooper looks like he'll start with Matty T, so I sort of expect to see Giteau - Beale as #22 & 23.