Bledisloe 1: 29 July @ MCG

[Derpus]

Agree with most of this WF.

In my opinion, Rob Valetini was best of the Wallabies, nearly BOG, Angus Bell was excellent as was Allan Ala'alatoa until he went off injured. Tom Hooper put in the best No 7 performance of TRC series for the Wallabies. Others claim he didn't have the speed for a No 7 but he was everywhere even into the 80th minute. Nic Frost put in another sterling performance and Skelton had some notable moments but seemed to miss quite a bit of the action from time to time. I also have some concern about our second row at scrum time. Reportedly, the scrum was the heaviest ever put out by the Wallabies but still got pushed backwards by the ABs. Who isn't pulling (or pushing) their weight?

Tate had a couple of horrible moments but he was overall far superior to Nic White when he came on. Is it time for Lonergan to get a run, if only for his goal kicking and better skill at box kicking?

I was happy with Carter Gordon's efforts, ignoring the poor kicking. Quade did nothing when he came on, so I'd stick with Carter.

We have big problems in the centres and outside backs. Kerevi is not up to scratch and looks to be still suffering from his injuries. I think Foketi is better value in the 12 jersey at this stage. Jordan Petaia just makes too many poor decisions to run the backline at 13. He is best suited to wing and I'd like to see him out there. Len Ikitau is sorely missed at 13.

Andrew Kellaway did not perform any better than Tom Wright at 15.

Before the game I tipped to my family that the ABs would put 50 points on us this game. As it turned out, they didn't, and I suggest they would have been closer to half that had the injuries/yellow cards not affected the Wallabies so severely. So, overall I was pretty happy with most aspects of the game, but I am left wondering about the wisdom of bringing Eddie Jones and his League/English entourage in to oversee our run to the Cup. I fear we are on the brink of having the game destroyed at the Wallaby level again, just as he did in his previous sojourn as Head Coach.

I think its pretty damning that was the best 7 performance we've had. He was involved a lot, for sure. Didn't have much influence though. And no slight on the lad either - he's a rookie 6 playing test 7.

Thought the centre pairing went way better than I thought they would. Petaia shanked a kick into touch and I'm sure they all missed a few tackles in the last 15 mintues when they had clearly given up. But they were otherwise pretty good in defense and did OK with basically nothing in attack. Generally made a few post contact meters etc.

Kellaway was absolutely better than Wright. He didn't do anything blindingly idiotic the whole game.

No wisdom bringing Eddie in. I thought Rennie made a series of errors that warranted his sack but bringing this fucken bloke in has not been the move. Would prefer Cheika was still around.

 

[Slim 293]

Not having a reliable goal kicker compounded the Wallabies' issues early on...

It was possible they could've been only 13-19 down off the back of some momentum early in the second half, but one missed easy penalty, followed by another one or two turned down for the corner put further pressure on them, or more importantly meant we didn't have the ability to put scoring pressure on them.

Otherwise, prior to a series of kicking errors, I thought Gordon looked to be an improvement in general play.

Individually, a number of our players had good games - Bell, Skelton, Valetini, Mark Mark... and it was an enjoyable match for about 45 mins (as Pftizy noted they soaked up the attacking pressure of the AB's without giving away many penalties), and the first scrum didn't occur until about a quarter of the way into the game... but they're a step down from being genuine contenders at this stage.

I was concerned early on that Tom Hooper's shoulder either wasn't 100%, or he was not confident about it as he seemed to be making quite a few tackles leading with his arm... but he was hitting a lot of rucks and helping them secure clean ball, and then wound up with a game high 32 tackles in the end.

 

[Namerican]

Kellaway was light years better than Wright. He didn't kick a grubber to the other team at the half from his own try line, for one.

I thought Petaia was generally fine at 13 and Kerevi looked more fleet of foot than last week. All of them are also playing with guys they've never played with and in new positions. And a new system. All that combined it wasn't horrid in the backline, the kicking and Koro's yellow card aside.

Kerevi will hopefully improve his fitness over the next six weeks. Petaia/Kellaway can acclimate to 13/15. All can get used to playing with Gordon/Quade and the halfbacks.

I think it's low on the worry scale, aside from 10, where there are simply no good options.

 

[KiwiM]

The Wallabies were able to put together good periods of possession and territory for quarters for the first 30 minutes and the 20 minutes after halftime but to only come away with 7 points is criminal. The big pack was able to rumble forward though.

Carter Gordon had a hell of a lot on his plate tonight - goal kicking, restarts, no second playmaker. There's no easy alternative but it's a tough spot for such a young un.

For the ABs I was pleased with the bench more than anything. Roigard was an enormous improvement over Christie and even Clarke got stuck in.

Wallabies need to badly get to the World Cup where they can build some confidence against teams they can match up against.

A combination of depth, aerobic fitness, injuries, players underdone, ill discipline, players out of position, players either inexperienced or experienced with baggage means Wallabies can't put enough quality minutes together to really pressure other top teams. They can't grind other teams into mistakes as there's inevitably a let off that occurs in some form regularly throughout a game (card, turnover, missed tackle etc etc).

The worry is the heads seem to be down for the Wallabies badly - which to Rennie's credit never really happened under his watch. The Wallabies post match interviews they sounded mentally broken. Those comments by Connolly I read earlier today about Eddie are a bit of a worry.

The good news for the Wallabies is with a World Cup coming up and a favourable draw there's a huge opportunity to start getting some wins and building confidence and truly get something out of this year (other than the obvious World Cup trophy).

Really hope the injuries to AA & Tupou aren't as bad as feared.

 

[dasduke]

I loved how Tupou was scrumming with what appeared to be broken ribs and so what does White decide to do? yeah leaves it in the back of the scrum. Reset and turnover.

Fucking genius that fluffybunny is.

This drove me crazy. I've been a White fan but he just lost my vote. It was the start of a series of events that led to yet another try. TT should have been taken off before then which a different issue.

And also not using the ball from the maul and then losing possession.

 

[kiap]

Having had the love of rugby scoured from my body by the Wallabies and Waratahs I now consider myself an impartial observer. Here are my observations:

Sorry for your loss.

1. The final Ashes match is only entertaining because of England's bazball batting... Well, that and the fact we've retained the urn and they're crying about it. Other than that, the Aussies are running on fumes now and playing like pish.

2. 100% while I love the Rebels, the MCG should NEVER be in the frame as a venue for any RWC games.

3. The All Blicks are good enough to win the World Cup, even with Fozzie driving the bus... unless, of course, Le Frogge dish up some Mathieu Raynal-inspired / Bernard Laporte-level l'escroquerie.

4. Is Eddie the reason we don't have the Bled? Nah. Rolling the dice with Rennie or Cheika or whoever is not gonna to win us two games in a row. The problems lie elsewhere.

I don't give a fark whether All Blacks/NZ rugby are in any way reliant on Australian rugby. The issue is the other way round. We need to reduce Super Rugby to a post-season addendum and run our own race.

 

[KOB1987]

It'll be Van Nek before Holz

Yes i forgot about him, possibly at the front of the queue even.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

I think its pretty damning that was the best 7 performance we've had. He was involved a lot, for sure. Didn't have much influence though. And no slight on the lad either - he's a rookie 6 playing test 7.

Thought the centre pairing went way better than I thought they would. Petaia shanked a kick into touch and I'm sure they all missed a few tackles in the last 15 mintues when they had clearly given up. But they were otherwise pretty good in defense and did OK with basically nothing in attack. Generally made a few post contact meters etc.

Kellaway was absolutely better than Wright. He didn't do anything blindingly idiotic the whole game.

Sounds like someone is starting to care again.....

 

[Dan54]

Well haven't been on thread yesterday or last night, but anyway my take on game;
Was a pretty good test, I thought the Wallabies gave it everything and without being harsh, played as well as they could against a pretty good AB perormance?
Positives for Wallabies, think we saw the start of a fairly long career as a starting 10 from Carter, even Mrs Dan commented that she thought he looked like he will be good. Tate went as good if not better then Nic White, and really whole backline were all pretty good. Forwards I thought went ok, perhaps not enough x factor players, and to be fair were trying to bed in a different confrontational style.
For ABs, I thought it was another good perfomance, if in player ratings Scott Barrett gets under 12 out of 10 he probably getting marked harshly, but whole lot were bloody focussed and went about their jobs well, I will sy Papalii was good, but Cane was missed in the scramble defence and around rucks. Backs are turning into a bloody good outfit, Telea has his turn at being star out wide, while Jordan was also good on wing. The midfield is looking bloody solid, Jordie Barrett is so bloody good their, and I think helps Ioane play well at 13, and also works well with RMo who had another good game.
Thought Ref panel were good also, no real upsetting moments etc, in a lot of tests Telea would of been allowed the try from tap, but I kind of like Refs being pedantic on making sure taps are taken properly, and intersting if they do rule that a tap that goes sideways isn't allowed, which is probably how it should be enforced.

 

[KOB1987]

Anyway, on reflection I don’t think it was disastrous. In perspective it was 8th playing 2nd in the world - would anyone be surprised if they woke up to this scoreline if it was ABs v Argentina or Wales? This is where we are at people, I said last week that we need to stop hoping for a miracle and look for a steady climb out of the hole we are in. I’m still not convinced that Eddie is the right appointment but I am sure that Dave Rennie wasn’t either. With regards to the assistants, that’s who we have for the rest of the year as well - people seem to forget that all Rennie assistants bailed out on him before he himself was actually given the flick. It was 6 months before the RWC, I can’t imagine there would have been too many quality options available with an international resume so he had to find a balance between who was available and who was acceptable. That said, I personally think they should have just assembled all the head super coaches, along with Grey and Gilmore and constructed a team out of that and used the whole 2023 season as a building exercise.

I can find team team stats, can anyone point me to where to find individual stats?

 

[Confucius Say]

Australia vs New Zealand - Player Statistics - Rugby Championship 2023 - 29 Jul, 2023 - ESPN

Get a summary of the Australia vs New Zealand, Rugby Championship 2023 29 Jul, 2023 rugby match.

www.espn.com.au

All match stats here. Tabs at top of page.

 

[Slim 293]

Anyway, on reflection I don’t think it was disastrous. In perspective it was 8th playing 2nd in the world - would anyone be surprised if they woke up to this scoreline if it was ABs v Argentina or Wales? This is where we are at people, I said last week that we need to stop hoping for a miracle and look for a steady climb out of the hole we are in. I’m still not convinced that Eddie is the right appointment but I am sure that Dave Rennie wasn’t either. With regards to the assistants, that’s who we have for the rest of the year as well - people seem to forget that all Rennie assistants bailed out on him before he himself was actually given the flick. It was 6 months before the RWC, I can’t imagine there would have been too many quality options available with an international resume so he had to find a balance between who was available and who was acceptable. That said, I personally think they should have just assembled all the head super coaches, along with Grey and Gilmore and constructed a team out of that and used the whole 2023 season as a building exercise.

I can find team team stats, can anyone point me to where to find individual stats?

Player stats on all the Super Rugby/RC match pages… probably a bit more reliable than ESPN:

Match Centre

super.rugby

 

[Confucius Say]

The press and most of the public think it’s the same old story…Wallabies disaster etc.

Whilst the score was shit, that was definitely a different team. They won it, we didn’t lose it. Yellow cards aside!

Have always said that Wayne Barnes is the best referee. Speaks to the players with respect and credibility unlike Peyper and his mates. Barnes knows his role unlike Peyper who thinks he’s the star of the show.

 

[Silverado]

Schoup or HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) (Harry Johnson-Holmes)? Holz even?

Schoup is LHP. HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) and Talakai perhaps?

 

[Slim 293]

I would expect Pone and Talakai in the next match, and Van Nek drafted into the squad…

 

[Brumby Runner]

Stats confirm my observation that Valetini and Hooper were the outstanding defensive players in the match. Bell also put in a good shift. The three best players for the Wallabies.

 

[RugbyReg]

It struck me that some, perhaps most, of the Wallabies were half cooked in the pre-match "warm up". WTF would you run the side half way into the ground in a warm up. Most of them had already played a game before the kick off. Eddie is confirming his absolute ignorance of the game.

Someone involved in Professional S&C in Rugby in Oz has confirmed to me that the players were smashed in the week leading into the game. 25km into their legs. All focus on WC. Doesn't make sense to me and put the players under immense pressure especially when Eddie comes out and says the shit he does. Madness to do this the week before a Bledisloe infront of a packed MCG.

 

[rugbyAU]

And beat Argentina in the quarters.

They nearly beat the Box in Joburg, have won the last 2 against us and have had success in France for the WC before so I’m not to confident on that

 

[KOB1987]

Stats confirm my observation that Valetini and Hooper were the outstanding defensive players in the match. Bell also put in a good shift. The three best players for the Wallabies.

I thought Hooper was OK but you would expect the open side flanker playing 80 minutes to top the tackle count. He also fell off a few noticeably, 5 according to the stats. Frost was up there defensively as well, and Leota’s stats based on minutes played were probably the best of the 3 flankers. I think T Hooper could be a good #20 for now. Bell was massive.

 

[HogansHeros]

The forwards looked like a much better unit in attack and esspecially defence this match. Crazy what having 1 great ball runner does in Bell. Valetini so had some good carries.

I thought it was a big call to start Carter and Tate. However after seeing White come on and slow the play down rediculously to the point of losing balls at the breakdown and scrum, im happy to see tate start again.

I dont understand this game plan... we have seen the AB and SA do the cross field kick well so we have decided we must do it now too, they were only ever going to kick to Marky Marka and ABs knew it, and defended it, so we lost the ball every time.

We have a good running 10 on the field and a hot backline and we kicked it away at every opportunity....