Best Number of Subtitutes Pole

[qwerty51]

I wouldn't be opposed to a no-tactical subs kind of rule (except the front row). Maybe allow 5 subs to be used for injuries, if another sub occurs, presumably not due to injury than that player is not allowed to start the next match.

Replacing 53% of the side is probably not what we want, 33% is better.

 

[Braveheart81]

How do you confirm a player is injured?

I don't think it is possible to separate tactical and injury substitutions.

 

[qwerty51]

Sorry just meant that would be the intended purpose, so 5 subs and any more (up to 8) can’t start the next week. Because they’re presumably injured.

 

[KOB1987]

I was trying to remember how it worked ‘back in the day’ when you could only make a sub for a legit injury. You literally had to get carried from the field.

I thought professionalism might have been the cause. Out of curiosity I referred to Jenko and Alfie’s publication ‘Wallaby Gold’ to see if I could find an answer. This is the team sheet from the last match they covered in 1998, well into the professional era. Australia use 2 replacements, England use 1. I don’t know what the answer is but a reversion back to that would be ideal.

 

[RemainingInTheGame]

I like 'injury only', where in community and school games it means replacements must have played a previous game on the same day (except for lowest grades where everyone gets a game) to maximise teams, games and game time, and for the pro game it means replaced players must not be included in the next game that same pro team plays in (to keep them honest).

 

[Wallaby Man]

I don’t think it’s possible to remove tactical substitutions however see value in dropping the bench to 6. It would see a Rob Leota type player where they can play from lock to anywhere in the back row become invaluable, it would also have an effect on the size of locks or specialized no8s that never go the distance.

 

[cyclopath]

I was trying to remember how it worked ‘back in the day’ when you could only make a sub for a legit injury. You literally had to get carried from the field.

I thought professionalism might have been the cause. Out of curiosity I referred to Jenko and Alfie’s publication ‘Wallaby Gold’ to see if I could find an answer. This is the team sheet from the last match they covered in 1998, well into the professional era. Australia use 2 replacements, England use 1. I don’t know what the answer is but a reversion back to that would be ideal.

View attachment 17401

Who the fuck was gonna kick goals if Eales went down? I guess Roff.

 

[KOB1987]

Who the fuck was gonna kick goals if Eales went down? I guess Roff.

Good point - yeah probably Roff, but I vaguely recall Little having the occasional shot.

 

[The Red Baron]

No subs. Survival of the fittest. Proper park footy spec

Reminds me of the days when you couldn't get subbed because there were no subs! Even worse when you realised you had to back up for another grade to ensure they had xv on the park!

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Who the fuck was gonna kick goals if Eales went down? I guess Roff.

Why not the haughtiest looking man in all of rugby football history?

Stephen. J. Larkham.

 

[Wilson]

What's the actual problem people are trying to solve by reducing/removing substitutions?

As it stands I can't see any of the main stakeholders going for a reduction in substitution from a player welfare perspective alone and I have feeling game quality concerns are probably better solved in the laws and how the game is refereed rather than by limiting subs.

 

[Braveheart81]

What's the actual problem people are trying to solve by reducing/removing substitutions?

As it stands I can't see any of the main stakeholders going for a reduction in substitution from a player welfare perspective alone and I have feeling game quality concerns are probably better solved in the laws and how the game is refereed rather than by limiting subs.

Reintroducing fatigue as a factor to a larger degree.

The modern game is moving more and more towards power and South Africa have taken things to a new level being able to replace all but 1 of their starting forward pack (a high risk strategy for sure but if you don't have injuries has the ability to create a real edge).

My view as stated earlier in the thread is that ideally you don't reduce the number of reserves, you just reduce the number of replacements you're allowed to make (similar to soccer). It's basically to ensure that at least half your forward pack is playing 80 minutes.

This would only be at the professional level of the game. You wouldn't change anything at community level which is about participation.

 

[fatprop]

^ the argument against is player safety, the historical heroes who struggled on through the pain of major injury are now a legal liability issue

 

[Wilson]

Reintroducing fatigue as a factor to a larger degree.

The modern game is moving more and more towards power and South Africa have taken things to a new level being able to replace all but 1 of their starting forward pack (a high risk strategy for sure but if you don't have injuries has the ability to create a real edge).

My view as stated earlier in the thread is that ideally you don't reduce the number of reserves, you just reduce the number of replacements you're allowed to make (similar to soccer). It's basically to ensure that at least half your forward pack is playing 80 minutes.

This would only be at the professional level of the game. You wouldn't change anything at community level which is about participation.

But is a lack of fatigue a problem in and of itself? Or is it just one way to ensure the game opens up into the second half?

For mine changes around de-emphasizing the maul and increasing the pace the game is played at more directly would be a better way of going about this and avoids the problems of trying to limit substitutions.

In particular I can't see any way you can get a blanket rule in that sees players miss a week if they come of with an injury. That.works for something independently assessed like head knocks, but for soft tissue injury that might not rule a player out for the next week initially you'd see players push through to not miss a game, risking much more significant injuries.

 

[LeCheese]

Hang on, I thought this pole/poll was just one of Dismal's fever dreams that he birthed into existence?

 

[Derpus]

Reintroducing fatigue as a factor to a larger degree.

The modern game is moving more and more towards power and South Africa have taken things to a new level being able to replace all but 1 of their starting forward pack (a high risk strategy for sure but if you don't have injuries has the ability to create a real edge).

My view as stated earlier in the thread is that ideally you don't reduce the number of reserves, you just reduce the number of replacements you're allowed to make (similar to soccer). It's basically to ensure that at least half your forward pack is playing 80 minutes.

This would only be at the professional level of the game. You wouldn't change anything at community level which is about participation.

I would also argue that if you are required to perform a wider variety of tasks as a player then your level of performance will vary more. Less subs means you need to be multiskilled to cover more on-field roles/tasks. The decrease in specialisation should result in less predictable outcomes.

Rugby is very predictable and highly structured at the moment. The favourites almost always win.

 

[RebelYell]

i like the football style, happy for a bench of 8 or 9 but limit subs to 5 or 6. Front row subsitution or independent doctor HIA fail only exception in case of serious injury, otherwise bad luck you're a man. Would help with the collision aspect and would need coaches to be more adept tactically

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Hang on, I thought this pole/poll was just one of Dismal's fever dreams that he birthed into existence?

I will fever dream birth your c*** and b***lz into existence NOW TOUCH THE POLE

 

[cyclopath]

I will fever dream birth your c*** and b***lz into existence NOW TOUCH THE POLE

This is becoming a bit "Festivus".

 

[Dismal Pillock]

OMG.

Kramer's thermos is so big it looks like unexploded ordnance.