Benn Robinson Ruled Out for the 2011 Season with Injury

[farva]

My understanding is that the tighthead will rarely be the one to destroy the opposition scrum, on account of having both the opposition loosehead and hooker pushing against him.
It is the loosehead that will win the scrum, but he needs a stable tighthead to ensure that he can launch his attack.

That was why Benn Robinson and Kepu / Slipper would have worked well. Fatcat can work his magic provided he gets a decent stable scrum that Kepu and Slipper (and Alexander back in 2008/9 could provide).

With fatcat out, our next best attacking prop is Kepu. Since he can play loosehead, move him there and give him a stable scrum with Slipper or Alexander at TH to work off.

I could be wrong though.

 

[DPK]

Right and right. They now have a handy pot plant at 3, Mike Ross, the successor to Bull Hayes, after Tony Buckley flattered to deceive.

Uhhh... wait, what?

 

[TSR]

Does my memory deceive me or wasn't our scrum actually very good in 2009 with Robinson at LH & Alexander at TH. I can certainly remember going to work each monday with a smile on my face (I am a front rower therefore quite easy to please). I know Robinson was outstanding but Alexander well and truely held up his end from what I remember.

I am not discounting that he seems to be below that form and that he seems to have develped a problem giving away collapsing penalties. But am I alone in thinking that it is not beyond reason that if we can scrum as a good 8, and with the improvement in Kepu, Alexander can meet the demands at TH.

Remember last year both Robinson & Alexander came back from injuries so even though they struggled end of season I hoped limited preparation played a part.

Anyway, I guess he now has the opportunity and time will tell.

 

[Lee Grant]

farva

Oh, a tighthead can destroy a scrum alright but usually it's illegally done and if so, it's more noticeable by the referee than when a LHP does it.

A LHP will naturally turn in. He has a tight bind with his right arm on the hooker to stop the opposing THP from getting his head in there when it's the LHP's team's feed, and sometimes you can see them actually turned in a bit already when standing up before the crouch. Moreover on the hit with the right shoulder only he will find himself twisting inside a bit more.

That's why a LHP gets away with boring in more when it's the other side's feed. And when you have an inexperienced or not strong enough TH Lock like 3M at Twickenham, a Sheridan can walk in the gap between the hooker and THP and end up between the two locks. 3M and Sharpe actually lost their bind on each other that day.

If the THP bores in on the hooker trying to hook the ball the LHP has to follow him and often he collapses because he has nothing left to push against. This should be noticed even by French referees but sometimes it isn't. This is the case when the comment of "why would a prop collapse his own scrum" has some merit - as opposed to when his THP goes down under pressure.

On the other hand sometimes an opposing THP, like Hayman in his pomp, can walk forward through a LHP on the LHPs feed even when the hit is neutral. Kepu did a few of these this year and signalled his rise as a THP.

I would be loathe to move Kepu from THP but Deans has changed him. When Slipper is fit to play there would be a case for him to play LHP since Kepu ended up the best Oz THP in Super Rugby IMO, but I remember Slipper getting a lesson from Castro against Italy and the bad scrum against France in the 1st half. He wore the 1 jersey both times.

Sure Alexander started at THP in both of those games and he is a dud scrummager in most people's eyes, and Slipper is young, but it did my opinion of James as a LHP no good.

In that context the choice of Kepu at LHP against Samoa makes sense - but I fear the attraction of Deans for Alexander as a scrummaging prop, and more so for him as a THP.
.

 

[matty_k]

Speaking of Fat Cat

[video=youtube;5yHBGLrLVrI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yHBGLrLVrI[/video]

 

[cyclopath]

Like it!! I mean, not so much Carlton Draught, but Burgo shows some dramatic potential!

 

[Lee Grant]

DPK

Buckley was looking good at THP when he took over from Hayes regularly at Munster and he started 3 or 4 games for Ireland last year - but it was a false dawn. This year saw the rise of Ross of Leinster.

TSR

Yeah Alexander looked good on that EOYT and I thought it was a master stroke by Deans to start him at 3.

I don't know what happened either. Maybe we are being too tough on him and/or maybe he can improve.

It seems to me that he isn't capable of scrummaging when he gets his bum low (bending his knees). Instead he seems to overcome that by having his feet further back. But a prop with his feet too far back will hinge down a lot when he doesn't meet his opponent just right - and Benny does that on both sides. I'd like to see his head popping up more - still subject to a whistle, but maybe showing some progress in an odd way.

Even when he stays up with feet too far back I doubt if you can push well in that position until you re-position your feet. By that time you are ineffective against the average scrum.

I say "seem" and "doubt" because I don't really know what I am talking about - just looking at it from a fan's point of view.
.

 

[Lee Grant]

Thanks for posting that MK. Nearly pissed myself laughing.

 

[TSR]

Yeah - I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Front rowers doing Flashdance is up there with Boonie Cross dressing - so wrong, but I can't look away.

 

[Groucho]

Yeah Alexander looked good on that EOYT and I thought it was a master stroke by Deans to start him at 3.

I don't know what happened either. Maybe we are being too tough on him and/or maybe he can improve.

I fear he was beFriended.

 

[Groucho]

Yeah - I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Front rowers doing Flashdance is up there with Boonie Cross dressing - so wrong, but I can't look away.

That was a damned decent standing jump from Robinson at the end there.

 

[Gnostic]

I fear he was beFriended.

It was happening long before that, and in any event would have more to do with Young.

 

[Gnostic]

farva

Oh, a tighthead can destroy a scrum alright but usually it's illegally done and if so, it's more noticeable by the referee than when a LHP does it.

A LHP will naturally turn in. He has a tight bind with his right arm on the hooker to stop the opposing THP from getting his head in there when it's the LHP's team's feed, and sometimes you can see them actually turned in a bit already when standing up before the crouch. Moreover on the hit with the right shoulder only he will find himself twisting inside a bit more.

That's why a LHP gets away with boring in more when it's the other side's feed. And when you have an inexperienced or not strong enough TH Lock like 3M at Twickenham, a Sheridan can walk in the gap between the hooker and THP and end up between the two locks. 3M and Sharpe actually lost their bind on each other that day.

If the THP bores in on the hooker trying to hook the ball the LHP has to follow him and often he collapses because he has nothing left to push against. This should be noticed even by French referees but sometimes it isn't. This is the case when the comment of "why would a prop collapse his own scrum" has some merit - as opposed to when his THP goes down under pressure.

On the other hand sometimes an opposing THP, like Hayman in his pomp, can walk forward through a LHP on the LHPs feed even when the hit is neutral. Kepu did a few of these this year and signalled his rise as a THP.

I would be loathe to move Kepu from THP but Deans has changed him. When Slipper is fit to play there would be a case for him to play LHP since Kepu ended up the best Oz THP in Super Rugby IMO, but I remember Slipper getting a lesson from Castro against Italy and the bad scrum against France in the 1st half. He wore the 1 jersey both times.

Sure Alexander started at THP in both of those games and he is a dud scrummager in most people's eyes, and Slipper is young, but it did my opinion of James as a LHP no good.

In that context the choice of Kepu at LHP against Samoa makes sense - but I fear the attraction of Deans for Alexander as a scrummaging prop, and more so for him as a THP.
.

Very good LG. The other point to consider though is when the Hooker is a weak scrummager and the binding poor opponents can and do target his bind with the TH with the attacking LH driving straight and the attacking hooker and TH driving in, not to be confused with boring straight in, just enough pressure to prevent the defensive LH from assiting his Hooker and the attacking Hooker splits his opponent from the defending TH. Defensive scrum then loses all shape and power. This happened regularly with the Reds and Wallabies with S. Fainga'a at Hooker.

 

[Jnor]

Speaking of Fat Cat

[video=youtube;5yHBGLrLVrI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yHBGLrLVrI[/video]

So that's how he did his knee...

 

[Ash]

Loved Mowen's facial expressions.

 

[Slim 293]

Fox Sports news is now reporting that Benn Robinson's knee isn't as bad as previously thought, and his World Cup hopes are now not completely ruled out...

 

[barbarian]

Found this in the Australian:

WALLABIES loosehead Test prop Benn Robinson is still hoping to play in the World Cup starting in September.
His stance comes only a week after sustaining a knee injury which ruled him out for the rest of the season.

Robinson ruptured the anterior cruciate ligament in in right knee in the Wallabies' first training session of the year at Coogee Oval in Sydney last Monday.

The injury requires surgery and will sideline Robinson for about six months.

But Robinson, who met with Wallabies doctor Warren McDonald at the team's hotel in Coogee today, said today there was a chance the operation could be delayed.

“Of course, I want to play in the World Cup,” Robinson said. “If there is a bit of a chance, I'll take it.

“They are still testing to see how much strength is in it.. I'll have to wait a little bit longer to find out what the real results are, but surgery may be delayed a little bit.

“It's still as bad as it looked, but I think my body is fairly unique.”

Robinson is rated in top echelon of international props and his presence would be a huge fillip for the Wallabies who suffered a demoralising 32-23 loss to Samoa in their opening Test match of the season yesterday.

Sounds like he is just hoping to play through the injury. Doesn't exactly fill me with hope.

 

[Nusadan]

Found this in the Australian:



Sounds like he is just hoping to play through the injury. Doesn't exactly fill me with hope.

If he does play in the RWC, it won't be a good thing for the Tahs next year...he's got to have the op regardless...

 

[Scotty]

I went for about 2 years before getting my ACL in my right knee repaired. When I went to get it fixed they told me the ACL in my left had also gone. The left had been operated on previously (not the acl, but the medial), but nothing ever told me that I had done the ACL it it as well.

I am trying to say it is possible to still function quite well with a deficient ACL, depending on the circumstance. I, of course have not tried it in a test match scrum though.

 

[daz]

I, of course have not tried it in a test match scrum though.

You must be the only bloke in Oz Deans hasn't tried yet...