Beale to Tahs, where?

[Froggy]

It now seems likely that Beale will come to the Tahs for 2014. He clearly won't be cheap, so Cheika must have a plan for him, but where?

At 10 Bernard Foley is still a work in progress, but is developing into a class 10. Compared to Beale he guides the backs around better, runs straighter, plays the ball closer to the advantage line and defends better. Both are good attacking runners (Beale perhaps a bit better) and Beale certainly has the superior kicking game. Cheika went to some lengths (and probably cost) to ward off a raid on Foley by the Rebels, so you would have to think he sees him as the long term 10.

15 is the other obvious spot, but Cheika has persisted with Folau there, despite the presence of experienced fullbacks like Mitchell, Barnes & Crawford, and likes the fact that it allows him to inject himself anywhere. Again Beale has the better kicking game, but it's hard to see Cheika moving Folau to the wing after spending all year developing him into a fullback.

With what he will cost, I can't imagine he will be used as a super sub. Perhaps 12, where he played about half a season with the Tahs some years ago? Horne has re-signed, but he and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) are very similar players, it might be interesting to see him outside Foley.

Thoughts?

 

[swingpass]

beale might be a whole lot cheaper (to the Waratahs, not necessarily the ARU) than you would think.

one would have to assume he and foley will fight out the 10 jumper unless Folau goes to the wing which imo would be a waste

 

[Zander]

This concept that all these players must make the XV is an Aussie thing. There are bound to be injuries during the season, it helps to have depth.

 

[I like to watch]

To a large extent this attitude is a result of having a salary cap.
When you have a limited spend,you need bang for your buck.
If someone is not a definite star/ter, you don't pay them marquee rates.

 

[Zander]

I also think Folau will eventually move into the centres.

 

[fatprop]

9 Phipps
10 Foley
11 Crawford
12 Horne
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14 Folau
15 Beale

easy

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Beale welcome provided he is not trying out for the Squad Muppeteer position.

Chieks has removed Muppeteer from the Squad Position Description list when he embraced the Swans No Dickheads Philosophy.

If he wants to continue recent selfish behaviours, then perhaps he should start learning Japanese.

 

[biggsy]

Maybe Falou headingn back to NRL, leaves beale at fullback and bit more money to find a decent scrum half to work with foley

 

[boyo]

Reserve orange peeler?

 

[fatprop]

There is a good piece in the SMH about out problem children, I found this interesting at the end

But then one senior ARU official tells Fairfax Media this: ''Kurtley gets into trouble because of alcohol. Quade doesn't know any better. O'Connor was the most cunning. He knew what he was doing. It was never an accident. He always escapes before the heat arrives. He's usually the architect of the problem. The best result is not having the three in the one team at the one time.''

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/with-amigos-like-these--20130816-2s24k.html#ixzz2cAoWKDWN​

A minimum of 1,000km between them for large lumps seems to be a good idea.

Then Link has to "manage" interactions while in Wob camp

 

[Hugh Jarse]

That article in the SMH kinda sums up about 3000 posts here on G&GR in the "QC (Quade Cooper) tells it like it is", "Dingo is Gone" and other misc threads.

Slightly more respect for JO'N but it seems he was well aware of the problem, so WTF did he not act sooner and stronger.

 

[Langthorne]

Bench.


Then with consistently good work in training and from the bench, or in the event of injuries, he comes into the starting side.

Beale is such a good player that under the right circumstances I could see him at 10, 12 or 15, but not at the expense of guys who have been doing great work all year.


Why are we discussing the backs anyway? We need another hooker! and probably a lock too......hmmm, maybe Kurtley is going to hit the Hungry Jacks hard in the off season.....

 

[fatprop]

That article in the SMH kinda sums up about 3000 posts here on G&GR in the "QC (Quade Cooper) tells it like it is", "Dingo is Gone" and other misc threads.

Slightly more respect for JO'N but it seems he was well aware of the problem, so WTF did he not act sooner and stronger.

You would assume they were trying to manage them and failed

Why not 'tougher', simple top players get more latitude. Guys like Henjak were dumped quickly, Gits (mentioned in the article as well) was given much more time. You see it in most sports, the top players get many more free passes

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Hugh Jarse]

It's a bit like a CEO saving money in the budget by deferring spending on plant maintenance.

It looks good for the cash flow in the short term but in the long run will bite you in the bum.

The decision to defer to act on the muppeteers effectively cost Dingo and JON their jobs.

 

[Langthorne]

You are right fatprop, but may I direct you to your own signature for some pearls of wisdom from a guy with some success in his field, and a track record for dealing with spoilt talented yound sportmen.

Sometimes for the benefit of the team you have to cut them loose. I hope that in this case Cheika can help a refomed Beale realise his potential and a player, and a person.

 

[fatprop]

It's a bit like a CEO saving money in the budget by deferring spending on plant maintenance.

It looks good for the cash flow in the short term but in the long run will bite you in the bum.

The decision to defer to act on the muppeteers effectively cost Dingo and JON their jobs.

Probably, that is what bosses do, they make decisions and live by their results

They never get it always right but they are too often only remembered by their mistakes

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[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ Except the boss who saves the money by deferring maintenance and gets promoted to the board for his excellent results, before the inevitable elephant in the room (deferred maintenance) wakes up. They are then well placed to lay sh!t on the incumbent about their poor performance when the seeds of that poor performance lay fairly with the person doing the accusing.

This sounds like Politics particularly after a change of government. It is a template for the leader of the opposition.

 

[Bardon]

^^^ Except the boss who saves the money by deferring maintenance and gets promoted to the board for his excellent results, before the inevitable elephant in the room (deferred maintenance) wakes up. They are then well placed to lay sh!t on the incumbent about their poor performance when the seeds of that poor performance lay fairly with the person doing the accusing.

This sounds like Politics particularly after a change of government. It is a template for the leader of the opposition.

Off topic but that's something that really annoys me about politics (both party and organisational). People generally spend the first year to 18 months dismantling or fixing what their predecessor did. Then, depending on how things are expected to go, spend the last year to 18 months doing 1 of 3 things (or some combination):

1) Doing stuff to win the next vote (like the Irish government using what was a huge surplus to give tax cuts, just before an election, at the height of our boom and overheating the economy. Thus ensuring that when the global economy collapsed the bust was much bigger for us, along with the fact that we no longer had the surplus that would have come in handy right around then).

2) Doing stuff to make it difficult for the next guy when there's going to be a change of power.

3) Working on their pet project in order to leave a legacy.

Political manoeuvrings such as the above leave very little time for anything to get done that's actually in the long term interests of the organisation/country/city etc.

Anyway back on topic:

I think if KB (Kurtley Beale) goes to the Tahs it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for him to have to earn his spot on the bench through hard work and then have to wait for his chance at a starting spot. Then it really would be a new start for him rather than just same old crap different city/jersey.

As I've said before many times I don't care where he ends up as long as where ever it is he's able to get the help he needs to straighten out his life.

 

[fatprop]

You are right fatprop, but may I direct you to your own signature for some pearls of wisdom from a guy with some success in his field, and a track record for dealing with spoilt talented yound sportmen.

Sometimes for the benefit of the team you have to cut them loose. I hope that in this case Cheika can help a refomed Beale realise his potential and a player, and a person.

Yeah, but even Ferguson put up with more shit from some players while they were delivering (ie Cantona, Rooney etc)

It is a grey area

 

[Hawko]

Firstly I think Cheika will need to do two things - get Beale's head in the right place so he leads a disciplined life and then teach him how to play in a backline again. Both those things will take time. Hopefully the first can be done in the pre-season but the second will require match play as well as training. Because of Beale's prodigous talent, he has been able to be selected despite developing some horrible habits - like chip and grubber kicking, crabbing, not playing close to the ad line. That will take time to rectify and he will probably get moved around while this happens.

There are six backline spots available and seven "top line" players - Foley, Betham, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Crawford, Folau and Beale. The idea that in a 20 game (hopefully) season that all of them are going to be available for selection every week is fanciful. Injury only has to strike once and there will be six places for six players. Given the rate of Super attrition, there will be plenty of opportunity for other backs in the squad to get a run, not just off the bench.

In 2011 Ewen played Genia in every Super game IIRC and then he played every minute of every test of the RC. By the time the WC came on he was mentally and physically cooked - and played like it, much to everyone's dismay. Most people on this site hate the idea of squad rotation and always want to pick 15 guys each week, only changing for injuries. "We've got to always select our best players", they say. But ask yourself the question: "What does the best team in the world do?" How come the NZ back-up team have got tallies of test caps? Because, along with the inevitable injuries, NZ makes a point of seeing that their back-ups are experienced enough to step in when injury occurs and that their frontline players are not totally jaded come the big games.

Where will Beale play is not about "there's no room for him" or "who gets pushed out for him". Its all about getting rid of some bad playing habits and getting him back to the standard of play he used to have and then looking to where he can best be used for the team. He's so talented that could just about be anywhere. The only position he doesn't have experience is at 13, he's played at the top level everywhere else.