Barbarians Australian Tour 2017

[TOCC]

The ARU have made a litany of mistakes in recent (or all) years but it does seem like people want to turn every issue into being entirely their fault regardless of the reality of the situation.

Right, and what’s the reality of the situation, that the stadium had 30,000 empty seats? that 30 players were taken from the NRC in the final critical round of the season? That the chairman of the ARU said the match wasn’t their responsibility to promote?

Yes, there are those of us who are critical of the ARU’s actions, and for good bloody reason. In the past 12 months they have consistently bungled decisions and tarnished the reputation of the game and caused irreparable damage to the Super Rugby brand. They failed to engage the players who lost their jobs and offer them counselling or support. They have refused to assume any responsibility for their actions and even today, they still lack the balls to make a decision on what is to happen with the salary cap and all the surplus players who were signed by the Force.

When the ARU start showing some actual leadership, then maybe I’ll stop questioning their actions at every turn. As the stewards of the game in Australia, they are rightfully held responsible for ensuring the game is promoted to grow.

 

[TOCC]

Business wise, yes, the ARU weren't going to make a cent more from spending any of their fee promoting someone else's event

Buisness wise, it’s actually in the interest of the ARU to ensure their premium product(Wallabies) isn’t associated with an inferior product, an inferior product determined by the quality of the match, the players featured and the crowd at the game. Playing in front of a stadium barely 35% full devalues the Wallaby brand by tarnishing it’s image for supporters and sponsors alike.

 

[bigmac]

And let's all hope that is last time Alan Jones is ever involved in the game, that was pretty poor after match comments, even for a radio shock jock. He did the Baabaas brand no favours at all. Sure he as much as ref doesn't understand what Baabaas rugby is!

Jones won't be missed

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[bigmac]

I don't think they needed to put the ball up the jumper - that move would have worked at that range and against that defensive line.

No one was going to stop Tongan thor

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[TSR]

So when Jones sprays them about them not producing a matchday program that was never their responsibility, what should the response have been?

The ARU have made a litany of mistakes in recent (or all) years but it does seem like people want to turn every issue into being entirely their fault regardless of the reality of the situation.

Should the ARU have turned down the match? The complaints about it conflicting with the NRC are valid but realistically it was this weekend or nothing.

With the financial state of the game are the ARU really in the position where turning down more than $1m net is a good decision?

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I get what you’re saying BH. Clyne is very much on the nose at the moment and people are looking to find fault.

But with regards to what should he have said .... I dunno - but pretty much anything other than what he did. Surely someone with his experience should have known that his comment was going to go down like a ton of bricks.

Clyne, Pulver et al are perceived as being out of touch, incompetent and lack accountability - so he answers a question in such a way as to suggest they are out of touch, incompetent and lack accountability. What he should have done was admit there was an oversight in the Barbar’s Planning, point out that the ARU had assisted and solved the problem and talk up how important the game was and how they’ve been promoting the game. All of which would have been true.

When people are trying to shoot you down, you don’t load the gun for them.

 

[bigmac]

Just to remind about Alan Jones, this man who has apparently thinks he maybe the moral guardian of our game, is the same Alan Jones who whilst coaching the Wallabies accused Nick Farr Jones of more or less being a traitor, because he had a few beers with some All Blacks after a Baabaa's game in which they had played together, and seems had a rule no fraternising with the opposition after games etc. Well if he the way some of you think rugby should be played god help you. I think Slim sums up what i thought of him after hearing him speak at a luncheon a couple years back, and he certainly has done nothing to change my mind!

He came to my school one day to give a talk. Just a load of piss and wind.

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[gel]

I'm surprised any of you care too much about the Jones rant.

Put the old dear in front of a microphone and years of habit are just going to come to the fore.

Did you expect any different?

 

[Dan54]

You're entitled to your view. No need to use offensive language though.

Usually these games are refereed by an experienced official who is either about to retire or just retired - Craig Joubert would have been a good fit for example.

Your clearly don't like Alan Jones - and you're not alone in that regard. Try to separate that from the substance of (a) what occurred and (b) the rational points that were made.

Ok Quick Hands, I heard him say at the end of the game yesterday that all his players disliked the experience, then we have Quade saying how much he enjoyed it, so one of them is lying. he also was upset because he said his team scored under the posts and the Ref didn't allow it , the fact is the ref cannot allow it for 2 reasons, 1 it is rightly or wrongly called unsportsmanship play to attempt it, so it was illegal, and double it up the ball was never forced on the ground as it was inside the player's jersey, I agree with the sentiments that game should of had maybe a senior ref, but to even suggest that Alan Jones was within the spirit of the match with his comments suggest someone who is more looking at scoring points against ARU than someone who understands the ethos of Baabaas rugby.

 

[bigmac]

Ok Quick Hands, I heard him say at the end of the game yesterday that all his players disliked the experience, then we have Quade saying how much he enjoyed it, so one of them is lying. he also was upset because he said his team scored under the posts and the Ref didn't allow it , the fact is the ref cannot allow it for 2 reasons, 1 it is rightly or wrongly called unsportsmanship play to attempt it, so it was illegal, and double it up the ball was never forced on the ground as it was inside the player's jersey, I agree with the sentiments that game should of had maybe a senior ref, but to even suggest that Alan Jones was within the spirit of the match with his comments suggest someone who is more looking at scoring points against ARU than someone who understands the ethos of Baabaas rugby.

Very odd rant from old boy jonesy

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[Dan54]

And I know we shouldn't care what Jones says, as I said I heard him speak at a luncheon a couple of years back, when he boasted that he had a horse in a race that day, and the jockey had been told it was to run down the track, race was on while lunch was on, and ended up exactly as he said. Another reason why I would never bet on geegees, and ccouldn't belive the racing never did anything about it. But in this case he is doing damage to my sport, so I care!!

 

[Slim 293]

Three posts in a row now … you're doing most of it.

But I've had a lot more to drink.........

 

[Slim 293]

Gob smacking stupid comment

Was I too kind?

 

[wamberal]

Jones thinks that Macau is “mostly Muslim”. He has repeated this several times, apparently, as part of his attack on our under valuing Christmas. He cites the display of Christmassy decorations that he saw there on a vist a while ago.


Macau was a Portuguese colony for about 400 bloody years. The last time I checked, Portugal is a Catholic country. One of the tourist attractions in Macau is the shell of the Cathedral that was burnt out a hundred years ago, and there are still a lot of Catholics living in Macau, and a number of Christian churches.

There are 100 Muslims, apparently.


The man is a dickhead.

 

[cyclopath]

I get what you’re saying BH. Clyne is very much on the nose at the moment and people are looking to find fault.

But with regards to what should he have said .. I dunno - but pretty much anything other than what he did. Surely someone with his experience should have known that his comment was going to go down like a ton of bricks.

Clyne, Pulver et al are perceived as being out of touch, incompetent and lack accountability - so he answers a question in such a way as to suggest they are out of touch, incompetent and lack accountability. What he should have done was admit there was an oversight in the Barbar’s Planning, point out that the ARU had assisted and solved the problem and talk up how important the game was and how they’ve been promoting the game. All of which would have been true.

When people are trying to shoot you down, you don’t load the gun for them.

Probably the most sensible post in the past page or two.

 

[fatprop]

Very odd rant from old boy jonesy

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citing the parrot is a level close to blaming Nazis for stuff

 

[Quick Hands]

Ok Quick Hands, I heard him say at the end of the game yesterday that all his players disliked the experience, then we have Quade saying how much he enjoyed it, so one of them is lying. he also was upset because he said his team scored under the posts and the Ref didn't allow it , the fact is the ref cannot allow it for 2 reasons, 1 it is rightly or wrongly called unsportsmanship play to attempt it, so it was illegal, and double it up the ball was never forced on the ground as it was inside the player's jersey, I agree with the sentiments that game should of had maybe a senior ref, but to even suggest that Alan Jones was within the spirit of the match with his comments suggest someone who is more looking at scoring points against ARU than someone who understands the ethos of Baabaas rugby.

Jones was wrong about the try - no question. I don't think he said that his players didn't enjoy the Barbarians experience, I think you'll find he said that they didn't enjoyed the way it was refereed. I thought he said that the players enjoyed the experience of being together and being allowed to play without the structures involved in regular week in week out rugby teams.

Arguing about who understands what it means to be a Barbarian rugby is a bit like an arugment about what it means to be Australian - everyone has a different view and who is to say who is right or wrong.

He is right in saying how the game was refereed was not a positive for the game. In fact the ref pretty much reinforced every negative stereotype about pedantic, whistle-happy refs wrecking matches that non-rugby people hold to.

 

[Dan54]

He said his players weren't ever interested in being involved in the game, and they must of said it to him quick,because he said it almost straight after game, before he seemed to even speak to them. But anyway QH, we will agree to disagree, you obviously think the attack on the ref by Jones was to be applauded, even though one of the things he was moaning about you say he was wrong, i will be a grizzly old fashion type that doesn't think you should attack a young refs obviously trying to do his best that badly in the press. And as for non rugby people, i think most would say if one of their own coaches had that rant he would of been fined heavily.

 

[Quick Hands]

you obviously think the attack on the ref by Jones was to be applauded, even though one of the things he was moaning about you say he was wrong, i will be a grizzly old fashion type that doesn't think you should attack a young refs obviously trying to do his best that badly in the press. .

I think that referees at the professional level (who are highly paid) should be subject to the same accountability as anyone else. I agree in general terms with his criticism of the way the referee handled the game, which doesn't mean that I agree with every single point that he made.

I must go back to BIL v AB game 3 and see if your non-criticism of referees policy is absolute. Certainly a number of Kiwis who like to lecture us about this very topic didn't mind giving Poite both barrels when it suited them.

It's a bit disengenuous to be describing a professional official as a "young ref", which implies to most a volunteer under 18 refereeing a junior match. In that context they should be immune from criticism.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

All of this just reinforces the view that Aussie rugby blames the ref. Maybe it’s our convict stock or our apparent dislike for authority. As ever jones was all over the shop: one minute he’s lauding Cheika as a good coach and the next he’s saying QC (Quade Cooper) should be in the team. There’s really no way of reconciling those two propositions.
To claim that he was a believer in unstructured rugby is contrary to every story of his tenure I’ve heard or read plus he had a lot of gifted players - many of whom got the shits with his structures - who just happened to be the best in the world in their positions at the time.
He is reinventing himself to suit his own interests.

 

[Dan54]

I think that referees at the professional level (who are highly paid) should be subject to the same accountability as anyone else. I agree in general terms with his criticism of the way the referee handled the game, which doesn't mean that I agree with every single point that he made.

I must go back to BIL v AB game 3 and see if your non-criticism of referees policy is absolute. Certainly a number of Kiwis who like to lecture us about this very topic didn't mind giving Poite both barrels when it suited them.

It's a bit disengenuous to be describing a professional official as a "young ref", which implies to most a volunteer under 18 refereeing a junior match. In that context they should be immune from criticism.

QH what has BIL test got to do with it, this is not about a NZ/Aus thing, and it not about refs been held accountable (they are to their own peers), it is about a high profile coach using a tv press conference to attack a referee,in a time when we are trying to supposedly teach young players, supporters etc that this is wrong. I would say same if Shag Hansen had blamed ref etc. Look as i said you obviously think it good, I don't it sets a very bad example and as Inside Shoulder has mentioned in above post it reflects very badly on Australian sports when it is done. as it I think it does when anyone from any team from any country does it. I will always wonder why anyone would encourage this sort of thing, but thats just me