Back to the future.

[Omar Comin']

I think it's a bit early to say the AFLW has surpassed rugby. It's still in the honeymoon phase and the crowds are already dropping off. In the 4th round the largest crowd was 6,700 and two were under 4,000.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I think it's a bit early to say the AFLW has surpassed rugby. It's still in the honeymoon phase and the crowds are already dropping off. In the 4th round the largest crowd was 6,700 and two were under 4,000.

Just looked up its ratings as well and they appear to be trending down as well. Still quite good but actually quite comparable to the WBBL. As for Super Netball it started strong but it appears they didn't manage to be in the top 20 programs for last Saturday. Compared to the Saturday before where they rated 123,000.

 

[Rebels3]

But Super Rugby was never designed or intended to be what you are explaining above. What you are describing is a standalone domestic product that other countries in SANZAAR already have.

There are two different product being diluted in to a single argument for convenience and its what many are saying people are missing. You can have both like SA, NZ and Japan already have that raise their base revenue,

A quick look at the SA teams that are identified as in trouble and you see that its not the domestic components in trouble, its the Super Rugby franchise parts. That can walk away from Super Rugby unaffected. We conversely have hedged our bets on Super Rugby and now we are in trouble with no plan B. You pull the Reds out of Super Rugby who play the bill for the QRU?

If you go back and read some previous post its clearly explained that now SA teams have travel parody (as in time on the road) with Australian teams we now have an issue with the competition?

The simple question is if there is a market in Australia like your claiming why are the ARU or private equity not jumping at it?

Foxtel have made it public what they want. Super Rugby and on top of the NRC they are interested in additional domestic content.

So the TV side has walk up start with Foxtel - so where is the content? There is your real issue; not anything to do with Super Rugby at all.

Super Rugby is a separate issue that an easy target even though it provides us with the revenue to keep our game professional.

The FTA argument has some relevance, but until we have a product to sell on FTA so its a moot point.

I think you'd find the NPC and Currie Cup are far from sustainable, infact the NPC is in more trouble than the NZ super franchises. The Currie Cup is more solid but if it were to become primary professional focus for South Africa it wouldn't be able to sustain any top line players. Western and Eastern Province are either bankrupt or in administration. Like Australia their entire professional set up is reliant on the national team brining in dollars.

 

[TOCC]

NPC has had it's fair share of financial troubles..

And under a previous SANZAAR broadcast negotiation, Currie Cup was given an inflated value with some creative accounting by the SARU. 2010-2015 negotiations allowed the governing unions to negotiate the price of their relative domestic competitions and that revenue was excluded from the SANZAR pool.

Coincidentally that year, the domestic South African broadcaster paid a significantly greater value for the Currie Cup and a lesser amount for Super Rugby. SARU claims it's a reflection of the value, but to anyone with half a brain it was clearly a case of SARU shifting value onto the Currie Cup instead of Super Rugby so that they wouldn't have to share with Australia and New Zealand.

 

[dru]

@TOCC The view from Saffer fans was that JON (for whatever reason they seem to personalise this bloke) had been ripping them off and tearing money from the CC to prop up Aus rugby.

I'm with you though.

Saffers look to next round of negotiations, just as annoyed with the current Super fiasco as we are. Blame others of course, but two conferences, two home finals, 6th etc has not achieved the Saffer keys:

1. Super Rugby that does not interfere with the CC
2. Balanced travel (more on us less on them)
3. Fewer local derbies (seen as counter to item 1)

The thing is that they still believe they control how things run and expect to continue pushing their weight around. I expect that they will want:

a) equal wild card entries to finals rugby ie we lose one they gain one. The Kiwis will push back so it will fail
b) removal of any double derbies, ie no home and away in the one season, which the Kiwis may be happy with

I really doubt we will lose the Kings, more likely the Cheetahs, less likely amalgamate Lions/Bulls. Most likely it will be 6.

I dont see return to a 3 conference system being compatible with the Saffer gains.

BTW when people discuss the "cutting list", We should stop talking about the Force with the Sunwolves and Kings. Start talking about them in reference to the Cheetahs.

We should all note that this is NOT determined by on-field performance. Not entirely. We also need to add commercial aspects and politics.

 

[TOCC]

Yes it's certainly not just on-field performance that should be used as measure of whether the team should remain, but in the case of the Sunwolves, their inability to compete at a competitive level compromises the commercial value of the competition by undermining the credibility.

If SANZAAR decide that they will retain the Sunwolves, then they need to place some performance criteria on them to reach in the next few years.


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[p.Tah]

Behind the paywall sorry, but I get the impression the ARU are wanting a trans Tasman comp.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/rugby-union

 

[TOCC]

Honestly it's difficult to tell.. I really don't hold out much hope over all these meetings, I don't think they will agree on anything in the next 12 months

“Even if South Africa is not, in future, part of an Australian or trans-Tasman conference, then there is still value in them being in TRC. So the reality is that we have to conduct these (meetings) in a professional way.”

“SANZAAR is not just about Super Rugby but The Rugby Championship, and the TRC is critical,” “Australia consistently playing NZ, SA and Argentina is imperative. That’s why you can’t alienate one of your partners and then turn around and say, ‘Oh, by the way, we’d like to play you at Test level’

“Can Australia sustain five (teams)?” Clyne asked. “Well, if you’ve got a crap competition, you might not sustain one. But if you’ve got an engaging competition, well, you could support a whole range of teams.”

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[Rebels3]

Honestly it's difficult to tell.. I really don't hold out much hope over all these meetings, I don't think they will agree on anything in the next 12 months



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I actually believe not having any South African domestic influence would help the rugby championship. Games against them would add a sense of mystery as to what they would have on offer. Would probably help the media with providing the pre-match hype with the unknown.

 

[Rebels3]

On a serious note, how attractive would you think a trans-tasman competition would be to the South Africans? Naturally the majority of them would be attracted to Europe for the money but if we could maintain current wages under a new format, would the lure of an Australian/New Zealand lifestyle be enough to drag some quality names over instead of heading to Europe. A Pat Lambie playing for the Rebels for example would make a world of difference to the competitiveness of the teams against kiwi counterparts. On saying that i wouldn't want anything less than 75% of match day squads made up of Aus qualified players.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I actually believe not having any South African domestic influence would help the rugby championship. Games against them would add a sense of mystery as to what they would have on offer. Would probably help the media with providing the pre-match hype with the unknown.

I've often wondered that too. If a little distance might help build more mystery and therefore less apathy toward Tests involving the Boks.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

On a serious note, how attractive would you think a trans-tasman competition would be to the South Africans? Naturally the majority of them would be attracted to Europe for the money but if we could maintain current wages under a new format, would the lure of an Australian/New Zealand lifestyle be enough to drag some quality names over instead of heading to Europe. A Pat Lambie playing for the Rebels for example would make a world of difference to the competitiveness of the teams against kiwi counterparts. On saying that i wouldn't want anything less than 75% of match day squads made up of Aus qualified players.

I think it would be at very least seen as another option.

 

[wamberal]

Clyne will be a good chair, I reckon. Played the game, but not at the elite level, and was CEO for NAB for a few years. Born in Penriff, I believe. Got it all, really.