Australian Teams in ITM Cup

[TOCC]

I don't even know why we are talking about this, it will never happen unless Australia promises to bankroll the kiwi teams with money we don't have

 

[Bon]

I doubt very much the NZ public would go for it. Many fans maintain we already play Australia too much. The NPC is a strong local competition which I for one enjoy watching much more than I do the Super 14. And I'm not alone there.

 

[Thin Thighs]

Like many I doubt this will ever happen, but as a hypothetical I'll indulge a little.

Any team in the ITM from Aust must be based in close proximity to an International Airport - Sydney or Brisbane. Until Canberra gets awarded Sydney's second Airport Status with direct International flights then I think they will miss out. ( An upgrade of Canberra Airport with a High Speed Rail Link would be such a simple and elegant solution to the Sydney Airport congestion issue, but that is for another thread)

Don't know about Moses suggestion about the foreigners staying in Coogee with their relatives, but I like the concept. The reality is Coogee/Bondi is now way too expensive for kiwis, and most of them seem to head out to the Sydney's West and North West., or the Gold Coast.

If we are restricted to non-Wallabies or S15 players, the player selection field is quite wide open, and I'd be looking to scour the various Academies for the bulk of the players with a smattering of ex Wallabies to provide the cunning and mentoring needed.

Coaches - I'd propose Ella G, Ella G, and Ella M for the Sydney based Team. Not sure about the Coaching team for the Brisvegas based team.

With Wobs, S15 and Aust in ITM taking the best players, I think that the remaining domestic comps in Sydney, Bris, and ACT would almost be relegated to Suburban level. A sad day.

There is not the money or inclination in either NZ or St Leonards for this.

The existing clubs would be most upset at never having their rock stars available for crowd drawing (gate revenue) purposes and I can not see them supporting this proposal.

Dreams are free, specially in the pregnant pause before the EOYT's start.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

the SupeRugby format is looking to internal expansion and i think JON's been clever in developing this. Therefore i don't think the ARC would be viable again in itself. I do however think that the Shute Shield and the Queensland Premiership are viable options, as well as a the possible revival of the Sydney north v sydney south (or even expansion into south/north/west) selective comp with the SRU or a national club championship based on the winners of the Sydney, melbourne, ACT, Queensland and perth club comps.

I disagree. It will take a great deal of cooperation but if the Club Rugby was re-aligned to run alongside Super Rugby from 2012 onwards this would open up a window after the conclusion of Super Rugby. Start it half way through the 4Ns. If Clubs did so then academy players can participate instead of being warehoused. An ARC is absolutely necessary as a development tool for fanbase and players alike.

 

[RugbyFuture]

Nah, because super rugby (and its incredibly obvious) is developing to go down in a category to match up with the other club comps of the world. a successful third tier would be to align the clubs with what comes out of the super rugby expansion over the years (ie western sydney: penrith, parra, Sydney: usyd, easts, randwick) and bring them in to the national second tier equivalent to the championship in england.

 

[RugbyFuture]

any gap could be filled by making the states representative and having a gap filling domestic rep comp

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Nah, because super rugby (and its incredibly obvious) is developing to go down in a category to match up with the other club comps of the world. a successful third tier would be to align the clubs with what comes out of the super rugby expansion over the years (ie western sydney: penrith, parra, Sydney: usyd, easts, randwick) and bring them in to the national second tier equivalent to the championship in england.

I agree with you on the likely direction of Super Rugby. It wouldn't surprise me to see it to grow to around 8 teams conferences. I envisage an ARC assisting this goal in the long term by giving the opportunity to prospective future franchises a opportunity to build squads, fan and market presence. Over time as the step up regional teams can replace them to form a similar competition to that of the Championship in England. Though it would once again have a more developmental perspective player wise.

 

[TOCC]

Won't happen, no broadcaster will pay for a third tier minus S14 players and Wallabies

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Won't happen, no broadcaster will pay for a third tier minus S14 players and Wallabies

If you use the existing professional structures in place .i.e. Super Rugby franchises (a platform for development for academy player's and a higher level for the Pros not in the Wallabies) the ARU could offer it to a broadcaster at cost. If the Super franchise are running 5 of say 8 possible teams the overall costs fall for the ARU.

 

[TOCC]

If you use the existing professional structures in place .i.e. Super Rugby franchises (a platform for development for academy player's and a higher level for the Pros not in the Wallabies) the ARU could offer it to a broadcaster at cost. If the Super franchise are running 5 of say 8 possible teams the overall costs fall for the ARU.

Um no..

Firstly il address your comment about the ARU offering to a broadcaster for free, the ARU had to pay the costs of broadcasting the ARC matches, the ABC allocated timeslots to the competition because thats what the ABC does, offers non-mainstream sports or competitions the chance to get exposure, even then this was only 2 games each weekend from memory. There is nothing to say that a FTA channel will even pick up a third tier if it is offered to them for free, everyone keeps praising ONE HD, but this channel has been a complete failure for Ten when compared to the other new digital channels, wouldnt be surprised if Packer just dumps the channel completely.

Secondly, as for the costs, yes you are correct, there is the opportunity there to minimise operating costs by utilising the already established Australian Super Rugby teams, however i think you would find that most provinces would be very reluctant to dive into a 3rd tier competition which extended over any great lenght of time. Financially, a third tier would still be a big drain on clubs finances, potentially a round robin type academy tournament similar to that of 2006? in which the Brumbies won could be financially sustainable for the provinces, but anything longer then that would be met with a lot of reluctance.


By extending the Super Rugby series, we have killed off any chance of there been a third tier competition in Australia in the next 4-5 years..

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Um no..

Firstly il address your comment about the ARU offering to a broadcaster for free, the ARU had to pay the costs of broadcasting the ARC matches, the ABC allocated timeslots to the competition because thats what the ABC does, offers non-mainstream sports or competitions the chance to get exposure, even then this was only 2 games each weekend from memory. There is nothing to say that a FTA channel will even pick up a third tier if it is offered to them for free, everyone keeps praising ONE HD, but this channel has been a complete failure for Ten when compared to the other new digital channels, wouldnt be surprised if Packer just dumps the channel completely.

Secondly, as for the costs, yes you are correct, there is the opportunity there to minimise operating costs by utilising the already established Australian Super Rugby teams, however i think you would find that most provinces would be very reluctant to dive into a 3rd tier competition which extended over any great lenght of time. Financially, a third tier would still be a big drain on clubs finances, potentially a round robin type academy tournament similar to that of 2006? in which the Brumbies won could be financially sustainable for the provinces, but anything longer then that would be met with a lot of reluctance.


By extending the Super Rugby series, we have killed off any chance of there been a third tier competition in Australia in the next 4-5 years..

Intially such a competition would span the same length as the ARC did in 2007. Short and sweet but of high quality. It would require a realignment of Club Rugby to run during Super Rugby but its not impossible as the expansion of Super Rugby pretty much rules out any real participation of Super Rugby participants.

OneHD is the only channel of the new digital platform that actually produces its own productions. GO,GEM,7Mate and 7TWO tend to exclusively rely on their flagship channels for any real content outside of re-runs of outdated TV series. You mention One has been a failure for Ten. I actually think this may have alot to do with the overall lack of local content available. It has the NBL (which as I pointed out earlier is only returning poultry figures yet One are pleased) but still lacks any real local sport. If they managed to pick up say CAs Big Bash (which has grown significantly year on year ratings wise) you could see One grow its overall market share. Offering another local option could be worthwhile.

Though I do agree with your sentiment regarding Super Rugby killing off any chance of an ARc ressurrection. It wouldn't be impossible, very difficult, but not impossible. I just want to see the ARU show its card regarding its vision for the game in Australia and its expansion plans for our Super Rugby conference. Having a system set up to create a pathway for new organisations would be beneficial as would having a layer of player development above Club rugby.