Sure no problem.
Australian Schoolboys & National Championships 2014
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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Sure no problem.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Yes, Lee.
He (HH) copped a bit of flak on here for his games for GPS but he was heavily marked and everything he did was highly effective without being necessarily spectacular.
A class act would be my summary.
I had no idea he copped flak - that's rough, should be off limits.
You guys are making me nervous now with these HH descriptions - I believe it. These "natural" types seem to make something from nothing & have plenty of time to do it....A back rower's worst nightmare - i've got him, oops no i don't...
Can't wait to see him play
Sideline Eye
Darby Loudon (17)
So, do the selectors from Qld talk to the selectors from the other States, either formally or informally, to pinpoint likely inclusions in the Australian Schoolboys side, or do they simply watch every game next week and choose based on current form over the four games during the actual championships?
With only 5 selectors named above, it will be difficult for them to watch every player position during the games with great intensity. How do they break the responsibility up for each position? Inside backs, outside backs, back row, tight five, and one looking at everyone, or something like that??
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
I forgot to say ASAP.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
M Sutherland would have a fair idea about anyone from NSW if not other states and I suspect those from other states have watched nearly as much of these kids as him, which is on a par with how much lee grant has seen of all them!
Which was one very useful side effect of the u16s - some kids put their hand up early
Stillnoidea
Peter Burge (5)
Sorry, I know that that there are no allocated spots. What I mean is QLD have not named any shadow players for its two teams, while NSW has. Some of these shadow players are also named in the Combined team, while others are not. Who is the higher ranked player? I find it strange that a boy judged good enough to be named as shadow for his State was not deemed good enough to make Combined, when some other boys are. I find it stranger that a boy good enough to make Combined is not named as a shadow to the State teams, when other boys are. Surely your shadow players are your next best? Theoretically your next choice? "It's just a phone call away, mate!"
For example, if the bench loosehead for NSW 2 withdraws, who fills the spot? The boy named as shadow 3, or the NSW boy playing 3 in Combined? If it's one of the bench backs it's easier because the choice between shadow and Combined in some cases is the same boy?
My QLD reference is because there is no ambiguity there. The QLD boys in Combined were judged to be the best player from either state in that position who didn't make the State teams, but does that now mean they are rated higher than the boy named in the same position as shadow to the opposition state team. There is obviously no better QLD player as they didn't name shadows, so if he withdraws, is the automatic next pick the NSW shadow, or does some other kid in either state get a surprise callup?
Hope this makes some sort of sense! It's been a long day!
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
I suspect that the Selectors are not starved of advice from "Clipboards" (solicited and unsolicited) as to who to look at, and how well they are playing.
@Sideline Eye, as a returning veteran of 2013 Tournament, you would be aware that all the Tournament games are recorded. Not just for sale to proud parents and relatives. The selectors (and assistant selectors) study them in great detail overnight. It is not just "the vibe" as they say in The Castle.
I'm fairly confident that NSW kids will get a fair go from the predominantly QLD domiciled selection group.
They are selecting for a team to take on the NZ Schoolboys. The boys in Black will quickly exploit any selection weaknesses. National pride from the banjolanders will ensure that the blokes that they select will be the best that they believe can do the do against the Kiwis.
@Sideline Eye, as a returning veteran of 2013 Tournament, you would be aware that all the Tournament games are recorded. Not just for sale to proud parents and relatives. The selectors (and assistant selectors) study them in great detail overnight. It is not just "the vibe" as they say in The Castle.
I'm fairly confident that NSW kids will get a fair go from the predominantly QLD domiciled selection group.
They are selecting for a team to take on the NZ Schoolboys. The boys in Black will quickly exploit any selection weaknesses. National pride from the banjolanders will ensure that the blokes that they select will be the best that they believe can do the do against the Kiwis.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
@Stillnoidea, the selectors that choose the Combined States team are different (and independent) from the selectors who choose the NSW and QLD Schools teams.
There is often paper thin margins between boys who are in the 1's or the 2's or the bench for that matter. Nominating that Rockstar Fa'amou and Superstar Goodplaya are better than Jones as the 3rd best in the State in his position over Smith as the 4th best and N.E Body as the shadow player is just one group of selectors opinions.
Despite the best attempts to make it objective, selecting is still an inexact artform and only represents the opinion of the folk selecting.
The Combined States Selectors sometimes have different views of how a kid has performed (and their potential) during a game. That is why there is sometimes "logical" anomalies in the selections. Trying to understand it and somehow apply some scientific metrics to the selection process will only do your head in.
Remember cream must rise to the top, even if it is surrounded by turds full of hot air similarly floating on the surface. Colts is a great leveller.
Not all schoolboy rockstars kick on after school. Not all Wallabies were schoolboy rockstars.
There is often paper thin margins between boys who are in the 1's or the 2's or the bench for that matter. Nominating that Rockstar Fa'amou and Superstar Goodplaya are better than Jones as the 3rd best in the State in his position over Smith as the 4th best and N.E Body as the shadow player is just one group of selectors opinions.
Despite the best attempts to make it objective, selecting is still an inexact artform and only represents the opinion of the folk selecting.
The Combined States Selectors sometimes have different views of how a kid has performed (and their potential) during a game. That is why there is sometimes "logical" anomalies in the selections. Trying to understand it and somehow apply some scientific metrics to the selection process will only do your head in.
Remember cream must rise to the top, even if it is surrounded by turds full of hot air similarly floating on the surface. Colts is a great leveller.
Not all schoolboy rockstars kick on after school. Not all Wallabies were schoolboy rockstars.
Sideline Eye
Darby Loudon (17)
On a similar note, can anyone explain the order of priority between 1s, 2s, and reserves for 1s and 2s. Eg, if for example, a prop goes out injured in NSW 1s, and someone needs to fill that spot, is it the reserve from 1s, or the player from 2s? And then, who fills the spots left - does the reserve for 2s fill in for the reserve from 1s, or does the player from 2s move up to reserve for 1s....?
I realise it may just be a case by case situation and up to the various coaches to barter, based on their preferences, but I thought there might be some standard protocol that's generally accepted and followed.
Can anyone shed some light?
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
Those squads are now set.
There is no movement between the squads now.
In your scenario,the 3 from NSW gets injured.he is replaced by someone from the 1's bench,and a shadow player is called in to sit on the bench.
There is no movement between the squads now.
In your scenario,the 3 from NSW gets injured.he is replaced by someone from the 1's bench,and a shadow player is called in to sit on the bench.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
And if they need a new player after the shadow has gone into one of the teams or combined states then they start phoning - which has happened in the past.
Stillnoidea
Peter Burge (5)
So what happens if the required shadow is sitting on the bench for Combined, as it is now in some instances? The named shadow misses his State jumper to another boy called in?
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
As I understand it, yes.
Loving Jnr Rugby
Frank Row (1)
Great to hear about some good rugby in the coming week. Won't be able to make it down but look forward to the reports. Some good game I believe and like always will be a tussle between Qld and NSW again after reading the team lists and seeing what has happen in trials and who has been selected.
exISA
Fred Wood (13)
I must make a general (and positive) comment about the Aus Schools champs. Despite the decline in quality of some of the regional competitions such as the Waratah Shield , I must say its very positive to see traditional non rugby states such as WA/VIC actually providing competitive opposition to the QLD's and NSW's . Back in my day of schools those sides would simply not be able to compete and they were mis matches. This can be attributed to the Super Rugby Franchises Force and Rebels being set up providing a genuine pathway to a higher level without having to leave your city - thus encouraging greater developement within those stages.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Yep. Sometimes life isn't "fair".
See earlier statements about cream rising to the top, and Colts being a great leveller. A State Under 20 Jumper beckons if the lad is good.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
HJ,
I'm not even sure this passes the test of being unfair: the only way to get selected is to play. As long as you remain a shadow you're not playing. I see it as getting your opportunity sooner than you might have if you'd stayed a shadow.
Stillnoidea
Peter Burge (5)
Completely agree that you need to play to show your skills, and understand that shadows 99% of the time don't get called in. Just intrigued by the nominating of Shadow players who are and aren't in the Combined side. Seems to me that one or the other makes more sense.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I think I understand you issue: the list of shadows is the list as picked at the time of Is and IIs being picked.
It is not updated to show shadows who were taken into combined states and, as far as i know, no new shadows are picked.
Combined States are probably (HJ will know) not picked until after the NSW Is and IIs have their fitness checks - after which the shadows are called up.
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