Australian Schoolboys & National Championships 2008

[footyhead]

Thanks spectator, I figured things weren't quite as structured to push kids through the sausage machine as RL, I figure more RL teams to find talent for puts a bit more pressure to get kids into the sysytem at an early age, not the case as much with RU. Interestingly I have noticed a few familiar high level RU faces with match programs in hand at most H matts/SG Ball and U/20 RL games this past year and have noticed quite a few State RU rep players in these RL teams, a lot more junior cross over than most people give credit and like me all those boys and their parents are trying to compare the two elite systems before they and their sons make decisions for the future. Yes I am a player manager, but I don't get paid for it, I pay all the bills and do all the taxi work. Thanks for your time. Any other intelligent feedback would be appreciated.

 

[barbarian]

footyhead, Union is beginning to become more structured in youth development. It begins at under 16s, and the NSWRU is trying to keep this squad together throughout their last years at school and oversee their training regimen. It is not easy as many of these kids have other commitments.

The next step is Australian schoolboys, and then after that most go to club colts. More and more though are being picked up straight away by a S14 franchise- recent examples being Beale, Cooper, O'Conner, Haylett-Petty, Fitzpatrick etc. We will see more of this as time goes on and the development pathways become stronger.

The issue in th current system (State under 16s, Aus schoolboys) is it relies heavily on selection, and selectors. If you happen to be unlucky and miss any of these teams, you have buckleys chance of picking up an academy S14 contract, or receiving any of the benefits that come with Aus representation (eg uni scholarships). So you need to have the selectors on your side.

 

[footyhead]

Barbarian, I'm heading up to Nudgee College in a couple of weeks to watch the U/16's play and I'm looking forward to watching some high level RU and I'm also lookng forward to the comparison I'll be able to make with the U/16 H-Matts RL I watched earlier in the year, possibly with many of the same kids playing, I know at least 5 or 6 of the very best from team lists posted on various sites, I don't like mentioning names of under age players. I get the impression from your reply that the S-14 scouts are happy to sit on their hands and only look at boys once they have made state level RU squads, if so that is a pretty lazy approach, they'll miss a stack of talent. I met Greg Inglis's U/14 MNC RU coach a few years back at a RL Game, Greg was selected for the country U/14 RU Northern squad but the travel etc was just too hard, that same year RL gave he and his family all the logistic support they needed. I wonder which state squads the S-14 clubs take the most seriously, for example do they consider the boys from the emerging states? In RL many diamonds in the rough come from these states and only need some extra development put into them(Daniel Holdsworth is one such player), RL now select an U/15 and U/18 emerging states rep team, they call it Affiliated States and it plays in Pool A and gives the better kids from NT, Vic, WA, SA a shot at the big boys from NSW and Qld. I like the fact that at Nationals RU has a NSW Country team, RL has not gone down this road. Also, in RL NRL scouts will happily go to U/14 and U/15 club games to look for kids, Steve Price and Shane Webke were spotted in the same U/14 club game up in central Qld many years Back, what a pick up.

 

[barbarian]

I think the idea of 'talent scouting' is far less common in Union than it is in League. The Inglis example you used pefectly illustrates the difference in the attitudes of both codes- League is willing to take the extra step in junior development, whereas in Union if you don't go to a private school in a major city then you face an uphill battle. This is due to the ARU having its head up its arse, and allowing clubs like Penrith to go under whilst Randwick and co prosper.

Also, with so few S14 franchises in Australia there really isn't the competition for players that there is in League. States can afford to sit back and wait until a kid is 16,17 or 18 before making a move- it is not like the other staes are doing any different. This misses the point slightly, though, as it is not the other states they are competing against, it is Rugby League. This is why we are seeing our hottest prospects leave before they hit 18, as League pounce on them quickly and give them a salary, gear, training program etc. Joe Tomane is the most notable of these recently.

Saying that, the under 16 National Championships is a pretty good thing the ARU have going. To quote their website:

The teams competing in the Division 1 - Rod Macqueen Shield include:
# NSW Schools
# Queensland Red
# Sydney Juniors
# Queensland White
# Victoria
# Western Australia
# Brumbies and
# NSW Country

The teams competing in the Division 2 - John Eales Shield include:
# National Indigenous
# South Australia
# Tasmania
# Northern Territory

So there is a good coverage there, with non-rugby states getting a run.

 

[the gambler]

I think the Penrith example is a little harsh Barbarian. In the NRL it is the clubs that do the scouting, not the NSWRL or QRL. As you say the biggest obstacle, and cause for difference in recruiting is the difference in professional playing spots available in the two games

 

[barbarian]

I think its a more indirect thing Gambler- in letting clubs like Penrith go down the gurgler, the NSWRU and the ARU are taking away incentives for youth in those areas to play the game. Currently, Penrith and Parra get the shit beaten out of them by all and sundry at Colts level, which causes kids to leave as no-one likes losing week in, week out.

The same can be said for junior development- practically non-existant in the West. I know its League heartland but we are being lazy if we do not give these kids every chance to succeed in rugby. At present we are not.

 

[Lee Grant]

Congrats to the Queensland lads for winning the U/16 final at Nudgee College.

We don't know which team yet because it hasn't been played, but both Queensland teams made it to the final.

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/all-queensland_final_for_the_2008_under_16,121388.html/news/archive/section/21893

Has anybody been to any of the games?

 

[spectator]

Lee,

Went out and had a look yesterday. When I turned up for the Sydney Juniors v Qld Red match, Juniors were up 13-0, but Qld dominated for the whole time I was there. Juniors had a handy 12, Adrian ha'anga I think, and another monster polynesian boy on the wing, who looked good but was under utilised. Will have to find my program to get his name. Standouts for the Red side were the captain and 7, Liam Gill, the number 8 Setu (younger brother of Lagi and Rota) and Lucas the halfback (younger brother of Ben). Lookout for these three next year. Red also had a 14 year old (turns 15 in December I am told), Chris Sautia, on the wing. Scored an intercept try and ran 70m. Lots of talk about his potential.

NSW schools were disappointing. Had a huge guy, Vaingolo, who I thought might have been used more. Qld White look like a good team without too many stars. Did have the best 10 that I saw on the day, in Dion Taumata from Keebra park State High. I think that is a traditional league nursery so good to see rugby making inroads.

Who'd have thought, an all Qld final..?

 

[Lee Grant]

speckie

Thanks for that report - thought you would be there.

Was surprised that Adrian Ha'angana was playing for Sydney Juniors (whose players are usually picked through junior clubs) because he's in the Joeys 1st XV and their players usually play for the NSW Schools team. It may have been the case that he wasn't chosen for 'NSW Schools' originally as he wasn't playing for the Joeys U 16 team because he was playing 'up'. Then when he did so well when he was promoted to the Joeys 1st XV, perhaps they were able to shoe-horn into 'Juniors' so he got an U 16 gig somewhere. Maybe.

I've written a fair bit about young Adrian on other pages of this thread in regard to the Joeys games I've seen this year. He's actually a no.8 and when he started at Joeys they played him up a year because he was hurting too many boys on the park.

When Joeys got their injuries this year they put him up to the 1sts and switched him from 8 to 12. It was a masterstroke and he was the best player for them in a few games.

Adrian (easier to spell) has a lovely step and wonderful hands for offloading the pill. He is also a bit overweight and will have to shed some of it if he hopes to make one of the NSW Schools teams next year. There are rumours that his interest is more for rugby league when he leaves school so, if true, I hope that Joeys can change that next year.

He is very similar to Lloyd Johannson in style.


Woo-hoo - there's a 14 year old in the 16's - I'll be looking out for him in the future.

Vaingolo - was he a no 8 but good at the lineout, or maybe playing lock? He's a Newington lad who I picked for NSW Schools for the Canberra Open Schools tournament but he didn't make either NSW team. A big lump of a lad and mobile - same fellow, you think - Keliti Vaingalo? A bit reminiscent of Sitaleki Timani at a schools level.

 

[Lee Grant]

Barbarian, I'm heading up to Nudgee College in a couple of weeks to watch the U/16's play and I'm looking forward to watching some high level RU and I'm also lookng forward to the comparison I'll be able to make with the U/16 H-Matts RL I watched earlier in the year, possibly with many of the same kids playing, I know at least 5 or 6 of the very best from team lists posted on various sites

You still there footyhead? Waht were your impressions if you ended up going to NC?

 

[oxe7]

Lee,

Adrian was actually picked in the presidents xv team ( basically GPS 16's) to play at the NSW schools trials. He was played at centre and made it to possibles and probables but wasnt picked... maybe because Hingano and apo latinupulo were automatic leaving only 1 spot taken by asipeli Fine. So he made his way through the club system and now is playing for Juniors.

Anyone know how NSW schools 2nd rower james williams is going?

 

[Lee Grant]

Thanks for that oxe7,

I knew that GPS didn't have an official U/16 team, but I remember that 3 years ago Damien Fitzpatrick and Zipper Taumoepeau from Joeys were in the NSW Schools U/16 team and thus wondered about why Ha'angana was in the Sydney Juniors - and you have explained why.

It's good that lads who don't make that Schools team can have another shot of getting to the tournament.

Adrian played his junior rugby in the Pirates area so they must have thought a lot of him to put him up for the trials. I doubt if he has had much of a chance to play for his junior club since he's been at Joeys.

It's ironic that Sydney Juniors beat NSW Schools 22-7 today.



spectator

Chris Sautia? Yeah, I've read stuff about him too. He sounds like a good one.

I see that Nicky Price who I've said was the best player in the Oz Schools team on tour, based on performances in the the Oz Schools Championships, had to return home with a virus and can't play in NZ.

Anybody know where the Oz Schools Championships are being held next year? The U/16s?

 

[spectator]

I see OZ schools belted a side from Wairarapa Bush (?) and Swanepoel captained the side and scored a brace. Obviously on his way back and assume he will be part of the Reds Academy setup next year. Very good halfback.

 

[Lee Grant]

That was a good win from the lads - any win over a Kiwi team at any level is good, but Oz Schools playing Waiarapa-Bush Schools is like NZ Schools playing Adelaide Schools.

I hate to be negative about young players but I think the NZ team will smack them. Our wins against Fiji at home, and against Tonga, were very skinny and I didn't think the player standard in the Oz Schools comp was that high this year except at wing and fullback.

Still, playing with heart and teamwork can overcome all of that as our team last year showed against the Kiwis at Hunters Hill. When the Kiwis looked like they had absorbed all our stuff and were making their own mark on the game the Aussie boys came back at them and won.

Something similar will be required this year too. Good luck to the boys and may I have cyber egg all over my face.

 

[TOCC]

NZ at younger levels always go well, the development of the islander and maori boys in there pubity is much quicker then the white kids, you can even see it in the Aus Schoolboys and junior sides, a large proportion of the sides are made up of the maori or islander kids even though they are smaller percentage of the overall playing pool.

Its also prevelant in the Aus S14 academy's, a large majority of the squad are young polynesian boys who at schoolboy level were awsome but that development peaks and they dont really keep going and eventually the white kids catch up. Its amazing the difference between the Aus Schoolboys and the Wallabies in terms of the ethniticiy of the players, 90% of the Schoolboy players are polynesian or maoris, yet at Wallaby level it is almost the other way around.

 

[spectator]

For Lee and others interested, a good wrap of the 16's tournament:

http://www.15manrugby.com/2008/U_16_2008/DAY 3 16s.htm

I didn't make it out for the final day but on the Wednesday couldn't help but notice the number of 'rugby official' types there. The QRU looks to be making a concerted effort to focus on kids at a younger age and I read in the local rag that they are now freely offering 6 to 10 scholarships a year at the lower age levels, in a bid I guess to retain talent. The good thing is that these kids don't necessarily get fed into the GPS system. Qld White was actually full of 'non-traditional' school players which was good to see.

A few weeks back there was the culmination of a statewide competition featuring schools like Helensvale SHS and Mountain Creek SHS, so looks like the game is definitely being promoted far and wide with the kids. A good thing I say.

 

[TOCC]

nice reports on 15manrugby.com, great to hear that the QRU had plenty of dignitaries there, im sick of hearing about young qld stars signing with other teams

 

[Lee Grant]

TOCC - about your earlier post:

The sense of your post is correct but 90% is not correct for the percentage of Oz schoolboy players last year who were "polynesian or maoris," nor has it been for any year.

That would mean that only 2 of the boys in a match day 23 would be "white kids" - as soon as you had 3 it would be under 90%

Incidentally Maoris would point out correctly that they are Polynesians anyway.

But if we count all ethnic "Islanders" (including all Polynesians, Fijians and the lad born in the PNG, well, it's part of an island) it was about 60% last year as you could see counting the brown faces in the ecstatic team photo after the Kiwi game.

That percentage has increased noticeably over the last decade.

I think you'll find that the incidence of brown faces in the Wallaby team will increase in the next few years. Not so much in the forwards, because as you indicate: the schools packs are more "brown", and ethnic European players get their size and strength later. But I think we'll see Wallaby backlines in the next decade that have half their backs ethnic "Islanders" and sometimes more than that.

A few Umagas and Lomus would not go astray.

Thanks for posting that link speckie. He always writes good stuff that bloke. When people ask me why I watch so much schools footie, and cop warnings from my wife that I'll be carted off one day for being a paedophile, I'll tell them to visit that website and read of the joy he obviously has for junior rugby.

 

[footyhead]

Barbarian, I'm heading up to Nudgee College in a couple of weeks to watch the U/16's play and I'm looking forward to watching some high level RU and I'm also lookng forward to the comparison I'll be able to make with the U/16 H-Matts RL I watched earlier in the year, possibly with many of the same kids playing, I know at least 5 or 6 of the very best from team lists posted on various sites

You still there footyhead? Waht were your impressions if you ended up going to NC?

Lee, Yes I was at NC for the week and watched most games with interest. It was very clear that the NSW Schools Team was struggling with team cohesion due to not enough trial games before the championship, I think they had one. Their halves and kickers really struggled to control the ebb and flow of games and their forward pack although powerful individualy did not work as a unit, a lot of one out running, isolations and turnovers. Their 12,13 and 23 did very well considering the poor quality ball and lack of possession given to them. In their final game against Sydney Club their scrum got pushed off the ball in attacking positions and they lost their lineout throw on three occaisions again in attacking positions, the front row was given no platform whatso ever from their back row which although big was not core strong. Often a won line out for NSW Schools was a ball batted back onto the ground giving the halves little chance of setting up quality moves. I felt sorry for the NSW team given the expectations thrust upon them and the obvious lack of game preparation. Qld on the other hand looked extremely well prepared and both teams(White and Red) played like well oiled club oufits, as did NSW Country. The addition of the Sydney or Country 10 to the NSW Schools team would have solved several major problems. In future at least 3 or 4 trial games will be needed before heading off to the championship in 2009 which is in NSW once again. Congratulations QLD Red and White.

 

[Lee Grant]

Thanks for that footyhead,

Were there any players in the tournament who looked promising?