Australian Schoolboys and National Championships 2011

[stonecutter]

Great post Stonecutter,

However, I do have some reservations about your point #2...



While I cannot speak to your specific example of the No. 8 for Australia A, and am happy to concede that players being picked out of position can do a disservice to the boy selected and the team. I do strongly believe that boys should not be pigeon-holed to a specific position. There are many notable examples of test class players developing out of just such selections (kepu's rise to first choice loosehead from schoolboys No. 8 being just one that comes to mind).

Not only can such selections result in finding their 'true' position, but can also create a more well rounded player even if the experiment is unsuccessful. Just because you are the next best No. 10, doesn't necessarily mean you're not the best No. 12.

Agreed, Richard Harry and TPN are other good examples of change but it was trialled at a lesser level first and then the players performed in those positions for selection into the team on exposed form. These types of changes are usually suggested to a player long term with a bit of physical and play contribution alterations required. Australia A games are not the right forum for experiments.

 

[stonecutter]

I am very jealous of the league set up here in Oz for schoolboys but it's not something that Oz rugby is going to have in the foreseeable future.

I would like Oz Schools to beat all overseas schools teams but am not too downcast at losing to the England boys. I know that down the track as they become men that our lads will compete with them as the playing field levels out.

More important is identifying the right schools players to take into the academy system so that the catch up happens earlier. Maybe not though. There is probably no top rugby team in the world younger than the Wallabies at the minute.

Therefore some folks may say: what is the fuss all about? What would be the answer to that?

LG,

I share your pain, but it was only a short time ago we were greatly concerned at the future of the national team (the Samoan debacle). Like everyone else I'm hopefull of our WC campaign being successful after saturday night but I'd like to also see us win the Tri nations more regularly than every 10 years. What makes the NZ and SA teams consistent is their ability to transition quality youth players through the system and provide them with regular high level rugby opportunities. IMO we are to too narrow sighted in identifying technically correct players in favour of "wow factor". The answer doesn't lay in denying either type an opportunity but providing both with a chance. The ARU has to get involved in helping the S15 clubs in developing 19's and 21's academy sides and then getting them game time against the other sides prior to going back to club rugby in colts or grade. The club sides then need to be assisted in helping develop other upcoming players within thier districts to keep feeding the pools of talent required. Consistent high performance doesn't just happen, it's thought through and then implemented.

 

[rugbymand2323]

bit of topic but curious on how the first QLD CCC vs NSW CCC game went? if anyone saw it?

 

[Moon]

Aus Schools A #8 is not out of position he plays #8 often at a school level and is way better than wells

 

[Raging Bull]

bit of topic but curious on how the first QLD CCC vs NSW CCC game went? if anyone saw it?

Didn't go but Qld won 50 something to 40 somthing

 

[Joe Mac]

Aus Schools A #8 is not out of position he plays #8 often at a school level and is way better than wells

Wells played lock (No 5) on the weekend and was easily the stand-out forward on the park. So I highly doubt it Moon.

 

[footy-kid]

RM2323-

very high scoring game halftime nsw 31-qld 14 fulltime nsw- 43 qld- 52, NSW dominated first 20 minutes with great go forward from the forwards, then swift hands out the back. last 5 in halftime was slow and QLD took their opportunities, with a roll on they scored constant points untill fulltime which was nailbiting
stand outs for NSW
#2 Hamish Austin, mobile hooker, got around the field and made inroad when took runs, big standout
#12 Jordan Meredith, great hands, good passing game and spread the ball well to outside backs, set up several tries
#13 James Blackwood, recently made NSW 17s and it showed, he broke tackles and scored a brilliant intercept try when it was needed
QLD
didnt really catch names or numbers
#8 Angus someone, made good yards when running and lead well
#10 dont know name, though late in second half organised the QLD backs pretty well

would like to see what anyone else thought.

 

[McFlavour]

LG,

I share your pain, but it was only a short time ago we were greatly concerned at the future of the national team (the Samoan debacle). Like everyone else I'm hopefull of our WC campaign being successful after saturday night but I'd like to also see us win the Tri nations more regularly than every 10 years. What makes the NZ and SA teams consistent is their ability to transition quality youth players through the system and provide them with regular high level rugby opportunities. IMO we are to too narrow sighted in identifying technically correct players in favour of "wow factor". The answer doesn't lay in denying either type an opportunity but providing both with a chance. The ARU has to get involved in helping the S15 clubs in developing 19's and 21's academy sides and then getting them game time against the other sides prior to going back to club rugby in colts or grade. The club sides then need to be assisted in helping develop other upcoming players within thier districts to keep feeding the pools of talent required. Consistent high performance doesn't just happen, it's thought through and then implemented.

This is what I have been thinking for some time. Why not create a u20's super 14 comp that runs with the real comp. Much like NRL's toyota cup. It will give player an incentive to keep playing beyond school and also some players dont start really hitting their strides until after school anyway. Just look at the amount of talent the NRL has unearthed from the toyota cup...

 

[Lee Grant]

It was interesting to see Dombkins and Cusack injured and not playing and Kris F'Sautia not at the game. What is the story with the injuries and are they available for NZ

I thought I had explained the absence of CFS but then remembered: it was in the Qld Reds thread.

One of the Oz Schools zambucks told me on Saturday that Chris had come back from injury but then damaged a hamstring. The Reds were treating it and hoping to get him back in time for the NZ Schools game. He couldn't call it one way or the other but he didn't sound confident.

About the others: I am Sergeant Schultz.

 

[an observer]

still no match report from anyone apart from the aus schools site. Are our Australian Schoolboys under 18s not worthy of the same feedback given to the other sides? Interesting.

 

[Casnovian]

Not sure if this is what you are talking about??

MATCH REPORT: AUST SCHOOLS VS ENGLAND U18

Monday, 29 August 2011

England’s experience and size beats Australian Schoolboys rugby side in test

Australia Schools 19 - England U18s 46
St Ignatius College, Sydney (2pm)

A more experienced and bigger England Under 18 rugby team defeated the Australian Schoolboys 46 to 19 in their one-off test today in Sydney. England ran in seven tries to the Australian side’s three, leading 31-5 at half time. It was the third win for the England U18’s on their three match tour.

A well drilled English backline cut holes in the Schoolboy’s defense out wide as the visitors piled on three tries in the first 20 minutes of the match played at Riverview College, Lane Cover, in front of a crowd of more than 2,000.

The young Australians, playing their first international game together after a short preparation period for the match, toughened their defense in the second half and forced errors from the English players to score two tries.

"That was the tenth time the English side had played together including their six nations competition, so for our boys it was a case of having to come to terms with the pace and intensity of the game as their first international experience," Australian coach Steve Philpotts, from Brisbane Boys College, said."And I think we did that in the second half, holding them 15 to 14 over that period."

The Australian try scorers were flanker Sean McMahon (St. Joseph’s, Nudgee College, Qld), fly-half David Horwitz (Scots College Sydney) and centre Jim Stewart (Scots College).
Conversions were added by fullback Craig Hunt (St. Joseph’s, Nudgee College, Qld), and reserve back Jake McIntyre (Alstonville High School, NSW).

But England never looked like being headed despite the stronger performance from the local side through the second half. The Australian Schoolboys take on New Zealand Schools in October.

Scores: England U18 (Danny Herriott, Dominic Barrow, James Lightfoot-Brown, Henry Slade, Marcus Webber, Jack Nowell, Max Crumpton tries, Henry Slade 3 conversions, Will Robinson 1 Conv., 1 Pen.) 46 def Australian Schoolboys (Sean McMahon, David Horwitz, Jim Stewart tries, Craig Hunt 1 conv., Jake McIntyre 1 conv.) 19

England U18s

15 Jack Nowell (Truro College & Exeter Chiefs)
14 Marcus Webber (Manchester Grammar & Leeds Carnegie)
13 Sam Jones (Ivybridge College & Exeter Chiefs)
12 Sam Hill (Ivybridge College & Exeter Chiefs)
11 Jack Arnott (Ivybridge College & Exeter Chiefs)
10 Henry Slade (Plymouth College & Exeter Chiefs)
9 James Lightfoot-Brown (St Paul’s Catholic College & London Irish)
1 Danny Herriott (Moulton College & Northampton Saints)
2 Scott Spurling (Harrow School & Saracens)
3 Kyle Sinckler (Epsom College & Harlequins)
4 Tom Price (Wyggeston & Queen Elizabeth 1st & Leicester Tigers)
5 Dominic Barrow (Prince Henry’s Grammar & Leeds Carnegie) (captain)
6 Joe Buckle (Bryanston & Bath Rugby)
7 Matt Hankin (Haileybury College & Saracens)
8 David Sisi (St Paul’s Catholic College & London Irish)
Replacements (all used)

16 Max Crumpton (Oaklands College & Saracens)
17 Tom Jubb (Oaklands College & Saracens)
18 George Sandford (St Paul’s Catholic College & London Irish)
19 Tom Stephenson (Moulton College & Northampton Saints)
20 Alex Day (St Joseph’s College & Northampton Saints)
21 Oliver Rosillo (Harrogate Grammar & Leeds Carnegie)
22 Will Robinson (Twyford College & London Wasps)
23 Zach Kibirge (Yarm School & Newcastle Falcons)

Coaches: John Fletcher (Coach), Ian Peel (Asst Coach), Peter Walton (Asst Coach)

Australian Schools

1 Feleti Kaituu(St Joseph’s Nudgee College)
2 Maile Ngauamo (Ipswich Grammar School)
3 Allan Allalatoa (Newington College)
4 Curtis Browning (Brisbane State High School)
5 Michael Wells (St Ignatius’ College)
6 Sean McMahon (St Joseph’s Nudgee College)
7 Mark Baldwin (Newington College)
8 Caleb Timu (Marsden SHS)
9 Waldo Wessels (Endeavour SHS).
10 David Horwitz (The Scots College)
11 Alex Northam (Killarney Heights HS)
12 Jim Stewart (The Scots College)
13 Brogan Roods (Newington College)
14 Saia Tanginoa (Prairewood HS)
15 Craig Hunt (St Joseph’s Nudgee College)

Replacements

16 Benjamin Lawley (Knox Grammar School)
17 Harry Scoble (Wanneroo SHS)
18 Feao Fotuakai (St Francis’ College)
19 Corey Thomas (Guildford Grammar School)
20 Will Miller (The Scots College)
21 Scott Malolua (Marist College Ashgrove)
22 Jake McIntyre (Alstonville High School)
23 Allan Faalavaau (Dandenong High School)

Coaches: Stephen Phillpotts (Coach), Tim Rapp (Asst Coach)

 

[Casnovian]

Wots more interesting is the carry on Squad announced today. Go Cameron Clark!

 

[Bowside]

Good to see so many boys from State High Schools excelling at rugby. Step in the right direction.

 

[RugbyNut101]

Really we have a per-person match report for the warm up game but no one for Aus schools. Anyone want to go 1-15 (23) on the players?

 

[dobduff11]

Anyone got any reports on how the England 7,8 and 9 went?

 

[Lee Grant]

I only have notes on a few of England lads and none on the 7 and 9, but no.8, Sisi, at 193cms and 120 kgs, was a damaging runner from the base of the scrum just about every time he had a go.

For me the stand out for England in the 3 games was 12. Sam Hill. He is a typical hard running 12 who was always hard to stop because his leg drive was so powerful. Once he dragged 3 or 4 players up the field before they got him on the deck. He knew how to run to the gap too.

Skipper Dominic Barrow (a 6 or lock -198cms and 108kgs) was also also very good - very athletic and strong, and probably reminiscent of how Tom Croft would have been at the same age.

It's interesting that all the England boys are connected with a pro club. I was told by one of the England travelling party that only some of them were.

This explains why they looked like men compared to the Aussie lads who looked like the schoolboys they were. They even looked more physically mature - and were certainly more rugby mature - than the Oz U/19 team they played earlier in the week.
.

 

[dobduff11]

Thanks Lee, yeah David Sisi. He used to play second row a few years back but he seems to have since moved to 8.

Sam Hill: yeah played him a couple of times, has huge quads! Good player actually and he might get some time at Exeter this season.

How did you rate Kyle Sinckler LG? That kid has got some serious pace and skills for a prop.

All the england boys have been with a club since they were 15, 13 in some cases!


Ps: I was hoping you would criticize the 9 lol, I'm still very bitter as he is the guy who beat me out at Irish's academy

 

[Lee Grant]

lol - He was hopeless and had his socks down all the time. Seriously, I can't remember his play as good or bad.

I wrote about Sinckler earlier in the thread when England played Oz A Schools. 3. Sinckler – came off the bench on Monday and carried on literally knocking people over nearly every time he got a run. Which meant he started against Oz A Schools in the 2nd game and came off the bench against Oz U/19 in the 1st game and on both occasions knocked people over. He was quieter v. Oz Schools in the 3rd game.

The Oz A boys were not saying "Yours" to team mates when he ran near them but you could see they were thinking that.

 

[Lee Grant]

Everybody was representing Australia.

 

[Terradome]

You have to play for a state before your in the national team though?