Australian Schoolboys and National Championships 2011

[waves]

Disappointing performance from NSW II or just credit to Victoria for quality rugby. They have been developing slowly but surely getting stronger and better as the competition continues great opportunities for the younger boys to develop.

 

[baldingwingforward]

"blame the idiot selector who couldn't identify the technical deficiencies that would be fully exposed at a higher level and that then produce results like todays."

Great post Stonecutter! You are a man after my own heart!!! Why is it that so many of the lounge chair selectors on here can so easily see the deficiencies that the so called expert selectors gloss over and miss. You can't coach experience and physical toughness into players... Yet selectors don't seem to value that commodity too much these days. (Lalakai is not a 12 at school 1st XV level let alone at State Level!)

You obviosuly went to the game - are you able to provide any observations on the forwards performance/deficiencies/standouts?

 

[barbarian]

Great result for Victoria, and also a good performance from WA. Great for the future spread of our game, and the growth of the Force and Rebels.

 

[stonecutter]

Great result for Victoria, and also a good performance from WA. Great for the future spread of our game, and the growth of the Force and Rebels.

Wholeheartedly agree. Previous post was not a denigration of Victoria's success but more about trying to expose the malignant cancer of politics that threatens NSW rugby competetiveness. Ask yourself how any player who has only played 2 or 3 first XV competition games is seen as capable to play at state level. This is akin to taking a shute shield debutante and throwing them in against the Crusaders. One last time for the selectors, you have to actually watch what transpires on the field and be honest in your appraisal to find the most suited players, not just rely on which association or school a player comes from to do your job. Feel sorry also for those who can play at this level as it is harder to do your job while having to spend energy supporting lesser talents.

 

[stonecutter]

"blame the idiot selector who couldn't identify the technical deficiencies that would be fully exposed at a higher level and that then produce results like todays."

Great post Stonecutter! You are a man after my own heart!!! Why is it that so many of the lounge chair selectors on here can so easily see the deficiencies that the so called expert selectors gloss over and miss. You can't coach experience and physical toughness into players... Yet selectors don't seem to value that commodity too much these days. (Lalakai is not a 12 at school 1st XV level let alone at State Level!)

You obviosuly went to the game - are you able to provide any observations on the forwards performance/deficiencies/standouts?

Baldwingforward,
Unfortunately, no I'm not in the state of banana bending, but I have a couple of reliable, sensible onlookers whose judgement I respect who are currently up there. The general feedback I received was that it was an open game where Victoria dominated physically and had more appetite for a physical contest (NSW too many ball runners and not enough grafters at times) but was in the balance till the end (3 tries to 2 a good indication of differences in skills, mental attributes and normal ebb and flow of a game). Of major concern was that NSW II's looked inexperienced and overplayed the exuberant stuff when territory and pressure may have subdued their opponents growing confidence and allowed time for better communication between the playmakers, and that they leaked like a sieve in the midfield channels defensively. This was always a potential problem to anyone who observed the performances of the selected players from the trials combined with their levels of experience at 1st XV. It was also suggested that the bench start in the next game to inject some mongrel into the performance which was apparently more evident in the I's game. At the risk of upsetting you, dare I say it but this may be a symptom of the dominance of GPS within the squad (13 of 15 starting and 18 of 23 total). A player such as Dombkins or Orr brings an edge to the pack that Kovacic and Rorke haven't developed as yet. I can't go into individual performances without witnessing the game first hand and as you are aware I don't hold the boys responsible for where they find themselves, in fact I hope they make a few well thought out changes, can turn things around and pull out a couple of good performances and support the I's in ending QLD's dominance of the last few years. Fridays game will be the benchmark of any improvement

 

[light]

How many teams go through from each group?

Was considering going to Ballymore and watching the finals on sunday. I'm assuming it's 2 from each group in which case NSW II and QLD II could be in danger of not qualifying.

Likely teams if this is the case are CSS, QLD I, NSW I, Victoria.

 

[I like to watch]

At the risk of upsetting you, dare I say it but this may be a symptom of the dominance of GPS within the squad (13 of 15 starting and 18 of 23 total).

To me the issue is not how many GPS, but how many GPS two's are in the squad.
How many would have been picked had they played CHS 1's?
There is a case for one or two of these kids, but nine of them?
Unfortunately, there is no solution. Every year there are lucky kids & unlucky ones, all we can do is wish them all our best.

 

[Dark Shark]

I am wanting to catch some of the games. I have seen the draw and the days, but cannot find any times published. Can anyone point me in right direction, particularly for the Friday game times. Thanks

 

[blues recovery]

Great result for Victoria, and also a good performance from WA. Great for the future spread of our game, and the growth of the Force and Rebels.

Tatally agree a magnificent performance from the Vics and great justification of the Rebel Rugby program run by the VRU in cooperation with the Rebels. Are you watching ARU , maybe more than one Development Officer might be justified in Victoria.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

To all interested parties the Championships are split into two groups - NSW 1, Combined States, WA and Qld 2; NSW 2, Vic, ACT and Qld 1. The team play within their group over the first three days e.g. NSW 1 played WA on Monday, Combined States on Wed and QLD 2 on Friday. The finals on Sunday see the teams topping their group playing the final, the teams finishing second in their group playing each other and so on.

The schedule is below

Wed 6 July
10.45 NSW 2 v ACT
12.15 NSW 1 V Combined States
2.00 Qld 2 V WA
3.30 Qld 1 v Vic

Fri 8 July
1.15 ACT V Vic
2.45 Combined States v WA
4.30 NSW 1 v Qld 2
6.00 NSW 2 v Qld 1

Sun 10 Jul
8.30 4th v 4th (Ballymore No2),3rd v 3rd (Ballymore No1)
9.45 2nd v 2nd
11.00 Championship Final

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

The games on Monday were all good games.

NSW 2 were definitely outmuscled by the Vics. They attempted to play an open game but all to often the play broke down and Vic were able to control the breakdowns and gain turnovers. Definitely inexperience at this level told and these boys would have learnt a lot from that game. I thought the half Merriman had a reasonable game as did the 13 Barclay. The forwards tried hard but the Vic pack were bigger and meaner and dominated their opponents. I was surprised that not all the bench players were used on Monday. Natoli, Kennedy and Jones were left on the bench. I would have thought that given the problems the forwards were experiencing these three players may have added something and possibly got the II's over the line. Lets hope they get a full game tomorrow.The Vic No8 is a big unit with some skills and he will be interesting to watch against Qld 1 on Wed.

NSW 1 played some good solid football and will improve somewhat in the coming games as combinations are settled and they all get used to each other. The starting side was mixed around a little with Ezra Amituani starting at prop instead of Lawley and Purcell playing 12 and Stewart 13. The difference between the 1 forward pack and the II's was obvious. I don't know if its because a lot of these players are playing colts but there was a certain degree of aggressiveness to their play. Broome was the best forward on the field closely followed by Dombkins and Wells. Wells has the ability to read a game and place himself where he can do the most good. The scrum improved when Lawley came on for Ezra

In the backs Wessels lead well and his service was the best of all halves on the day. The combination of Purcell and Stewart loked good and I think will be the starting scombination if they make the final. Tanginoa was very strong and always threatened and Gutherson is the frontrunner for the OZ Schools 15 spot.

WA were very competitive and stayed with NSW for most of the game and they will trouble Qld 2 on Wed.

Combined States were the surprise of the day and they played very well to upset Qld 2. Qld 2 started well and played some free and open rugby however CS kept coming at them and this seemed to unsettle QLD 2 and as the game progressed the CS side got on top. Baldwin, for the time he was on was outstanding. He was replaced at half-time due to his ankle problem. I hope this is not serious as I am looking forward to seeing him play again. Others to show out were Will miller who played 6 and Tautala Tasi who played 8. Both very busy and good with the ball in hand. In the backs McIntyre was the best 10 on show all day. I was surprised that he missed NSW selection and he showed on Monday that he should hav been selected in one of the NSW teams. The two centres Asquith and Gordon both proved a handful and were strong in both attack and defence. For Qld 2 the winger Brimble was elusive but in general the side did not like to get down and dirty and buckled when CS came at them and didn't back down.

In the final game Qld 1 overpowered ACT. The game was close in the first half with the score only 15-8 just before half time but a try right on the siren saw the score to 20 - 8 and this was the end of the contest. Timu the big No8 was very powerful and made some telling runs. The Qld forwards are their strength and work very well as a unit. Browning is the heart of the pack and drives them well. The backs are good without being outstanding and without F'Sautia their is no special spark to capitalise on the half chances. Given the weakness of the ACT side it is hard to judge how good the Qld side is but we will know better after Wednesday's game against Vic.

Wednesdays games will be better than Fridays games with both NSW 1 and Qld 1 playing sides that will tell us if they are indeed the best two sides. Qld 2 and NSW 2 will be trying hard to stay in the championship against sides hat have lost their first games. I still think that NSW 1 will play QLD 1 in the final and this should be a classic match up

 

[Dark Shark]

Thanks for the times Iluvmyfooty. Understand what you are saying about Wednesday games, but I reckon there is nothing better than when Qld play NSW.

 

[baldingwingforward]

To me the issue is not how many GPS, but how many GPS two's are in the squad.
There is a case for one or two of these kids, but nine of them?
.

Totally agree with you - other than perhaps Merriman, i would have picked a totally different backline! In the forwards i would have picked 3 or perhaps 4 of the boys that are in there, but as i have previously stated 3 or 4 of them are clearly not good enough to be at this level.

Tomorrows game will tell us whether the NSW 2s boys have any ticker or not. Given that QLD 1 hammered ACT, NSW 2 would want to be putting a few points on them to give them some hope for Friday! I think they will win but not by much.

 

[attack21]

The games on Monday were all good games.

I thought the half Merriman had a reasonable game as did the 13 Barclay.

Tanginoa was very strong and always threatened and Gutherson is the frontrunner for the OZ Schools 15 spot.

In the backs McIntyre was the best 10 on show all day. I was surprised that he missed NSW selection and he showed on Monday that he should hav been selected in one of the NSW teams.

Thanks for the comments Iluvmyfooty just a few thoughts. From what I heard Barclay wasn't good at all! he and the other centre let through alot of attack through poor defence, or bad communication... I still think it's a joke brogan and from monday's games, the cas centre are on the bench instead of starting for 2's. they lack size, and as alluded by baldingwingforward there is no physical presence in attack or defence.

With Gutherson, I was told he wasn't anything outstanding, just did the basics well. In both nsw 1's and 2's ball didn't move all that well outside the centres with alot of forward runners scoring tries... Tanginoa and Roye when he went on were both outstanding due to their high work rate, and efforts to go looking for the ball... both gutherson and le lievre could learn from this for the next game.

once again i was told mcintyre was as u described the best 10 all day. his defence and smart plays had qld 2 in trouble constantly. he should have been at least starting 10 in nsw 2 over horwitz with vaux on the bench as a utility back.... just some thoughts.

 

[lily]

Why do some of us think it is ok to criticize teenagers who are doing there best? As someone else said earlier dont blame them, blame the idiots that selected them.

 

[baldingwingforward]

"From what I heard Barclay wasn't good at all! he and the other centre let through alot of attack through poor defence, or bad communication..."

Bit of a problem that one. They will get carved up by QLD 1 if they remain the starting centres.

Not 100% sure of the guys on the bench but in order to stiffen them up a bit i would put Vaux at 12 - at least he will tackle! (player of the tournament at 16s nationals last year - playing at 15), put Roye on the other wing for Carroll. What pos is Notoli? Can he play 13?

In the forwards not many options. I am surprised if the starting 4,5,6 and 7 struggled against VIC physically as they are all very aggressive physical players. Kovacic in particular is a niggly piece of work and he's not small. Perhaps he had an off day. I am not surprised if the other forwards struggled as i have seen them go missing before. Sio is great going forwards but he soon disappears when the heat comes on. Possibly bench Sio and put Dempsey at 8 and bring Kennedy in at 6 and play a really quick agressive backrow. I think the front row is seriously under gunned whomever they put in there...

Totally agree with your observations re McIntyre! How the faaarrk did he not get picked somewhere yet the GPS 2s 10 did.

 

[light]

NSW II sounds to be in a bit of trouble, mind you the QLD I backline isn't as punishing as it's been in the past. Forward pack should be a good showdown, but I'm sticking with the boys up north by 15+ points. Seem very well rounded and don't make too many mistakes

 

[Lee Grant]

Thanks for the reports everybody especially Iluvmyfooty and stonecutter.

stonecutter - please use paragraphs so that your good stuff is more readable.

That is a very good result for Victoria regardless of how dud the NSW II team was on the day.

And how good is the Combined States concept giving good players a 2nd chance?

 

[thecow]

NSW 2's beat ACT 31-19

 

[Ageing Parent]

NSW 2's beat ACT 31-19

Apparently the backs showed a little more resolve today with Vaux at 5/8 & Horwitz at inside centre. Can anyone provide a more detailed match report ?