Australian Rugby / RA

[Strewthcobber]

. Cricket in every state but NSW is heavily reliant on private schools

Is that really true?

Eg the highest rated young cricketer is Queensland is a kid named Steve Hogan. He goes to a private school but is still playing cricket for his club Sandgate-Redcliffe, and going to age group national championships etc. That's pretty typical. Development happening both at school and club level, not exclusively at school like for rugby.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

It's not. Most of the top Cricket kids are playing 1st/2nd grade Club while they are at School along with Green Shield if you're in NSW for the age rep. No doubt they play Schools if they are at a Private School but those rep teams aren't that big a deal.

 

[Strewthcobber]

It's not. Most of the top Cricket kids are playing 1st/2nd grade Club while they are at School along with Green Shield if you're in NSW for the age rep. No doubt they play Schools if they are at a Private School but those rep teams aren't that big a deal.

Yeah that's what I thought.

The causation is the other way around. The kids that can afford to be good at cricket can also afford to go to private school, but they are actually getting good by playing grade cricket.

17-year-old rugby players on a GPS scholarship aren't also playing club games, but they are the only ones getting into rep teams because of the facilities/training/coaching and visibility.

 

[Braveheart81]

The causation is the other way around. The kids that can afford to be good at cricket can also afford to go to private school, but they are actually getting good by playing grade cricket.

Maybe things have changed in recent years but it was always regarded as being problematic to becoming an elite cricketer by being at a GPS/CAS school due to how short the school cricket season was and the structure of cricket season making it very difficult to play cricket outside of school.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

It's also the nature of the sport. A 16 year old can't play 1st Grade Club Rugby. They'll get hurt. Sports like Cricket & Golf that are predominantly skill based it's doable.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Maybe things have changed in recent years but it was always regarded as being problematic to becoming an elite cricketer by being at a GPS/CAS school due to how short the school cricket season was and the structure of cricket season making it very difficult to play cricket outside of school.

There are a lot more private school kids ending up at elite levels in cricket than there used to be, so they must have worked something out. (eg recent captain of Australia U19 cricket team went to BGS).

A lot of it is the differences in the sport - you can play multiple games of cricket in a weekend, and pack a lot more games into a National champs week, plus there are a lot fewer multi-day games of cricket than there used to be with T20 and one dayers

 

[KevinO]

There is also a lot of public schools now with massive sports programs. Maribynong Collage in Melbourne west, government school that's offering a massive range of sports scholarships has no rugby program at all. These are the types of schools that RA needs to be looking at, where they have top athletes who might be better suited to rugby then their chosen sports.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Quick question for people, why does RA need to support amateur clubs anyway? I have played many sports over the years and not one of them really gets any support from a governing body, well financial support or even resources for that matter, it’s generally all generated through subs from participation and raffles. My kids currently play rugby league on the Gold Coast and the NRL has almost nothing to do with the operation of the club. Maybe once a year a fringe NRL player is turning up to the club for an hour. I’m almost certain they receive nothing outside some local council support for their running costs. I always find this bemusing when people say RA need to do more. Amateur clubs should be run on the smell of an oily rag. From my experience the clubs are almost no different from how other sports are treated, the only difference been the amount of kids wanting to sign up and replicate their heroes and the amount of parents wanting their children to play the sport.

I personally think it’s an engagement and perception issue than a financial/resources one.

You're probably right, but having had a son play Aussie Rules and rugby as a junior, it's been interesting to compare that level of engagement between the codes. The AFL (and their state counterpart in the WAFL) are on the front foot with promotion of the game, branding, engagement with the clubs, elite level players coming down to training etc. It all feels very bottom up.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

There are a lot more private school kids ending up at elite levels in cricket than there used to be, so they must have worked something out. (eg recent captain of Australia U19 cricket team went to BGS).

A lot of it is the differences in the sport - you can play multiple games of cricket in a weekend, and pack a lot more games into a National champs week, plus there are a lot fewer multi-day games of cricket than there used to be with T20 and one dayers

That's definitely increasingly the case in WA. Over here you've got lads playing first XI cricket in the first half of the year (mostly yr 12 boys) on Saturdays, but come the end of the calendar year they're available to play district cricket due to no senior sport for them during exams etc. That's obviously got a lot to do with cricket being a summer sport, but the transition from school cricket to playing colts/grade against men is pretty seamless. We have something like 18 district sides in Perth metro though, so its not uniform across the city.

 

[Mick The Munch]

How to run a sports business - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/a...-plan-federal-government-scheme-extra-funding

 

[Wallaby Man]

How to run a sports business - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/a...-plan-federal-government-scheme-extra-funding

NRL gave out $98m plus covered all player salaries. That’s more than $250m last year alone. I understand they have the money and foundations to be able to do so, but just makes me cry haha

 

[Strewthcobber]

The magnitudes not quite the same, but each of our Super Rugby teams would be getting "more" because of the PacificAus sports program government funding of Fiji Drua.

We don't share with them the extra broadcast revenue that their existence allows.

 

[Rebel man]

Is that really true?

Eg the highest rated young cricketer is Queensland is a kid named Steve Hogan. He goes to a private school but is still playing cricket for his club Sandgate-Redcliffe, and going to age group national championships etc. That's pretty typical. Development happening both at school and club level, not exclusively at school like for rugby.

It’s because it is easy to pay two games of cricket in a week. Most contracted players in every state but NSW are private school boys. Probably why historically NSW is the strongest state in the game

 

[Rebel man]

Maybe things have changed in recent years but it was always regarded as being problematic to becoming an elite cricketer by being at a GPS/CAS school due to how short the school cricket season was and the structure of cricket season making it very difficult to play cricket outside of school.

Yeah in NSW it is as it blocks participation in grade cricket. NSW has always historically had the strongest club competition and has been the most successful state

 

[RugbyReg]

From Cully’s article today.

“Sources with knowledge of the situation who requested anonymity to speak freely have told the Herald the Force lose millions a year, underwritten by the Forrests, and the Brumbies might need the RA loan of $1.7m to be forgiven, if it hasn’t already happened. The Rebels, all but certain to disappear once their season is over, may not be the last club to hand over their licence.”

 

[oztimmay]

Great. So a NSW vs QLD derby every weekend? Will do wonders to build Aus Rugby.

 

[RugbyReg]

I think if anything it blows it all up and starts again.

 

[Mick The Munch]

I get the sense that RA woudl be happy with 2 or 3 teams in preparation for the "global league" in a few years time

 

[KOB1987]

I think NSW, Qld and a 3rd ’barbarians’ team works fine in the context of representative teams that play each other as Wallabies selection trials and/or a shortened SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) format. However, there needs to be a pro tier below this. I suspect a model something along these lines is what RA is going to work towards, possibly allowing a lot of senior players to ply their trade o/s and still be eligible for selection while it is built up.

 

[RugbyReg]

It shows you how hard it is though. Force losing millions with no real results as a reward. Not many Twiggys out there to support that type of business case.