Australian Rugby / RA

[Dan54]

I’m fairly optimistic about the bounce back factor in 2024.
I am greatly concerned about the financial situation of 3 of our super rugby franchises.
Is a merger likely?

I think things are on up for Aussie rugby myself, siad it a few times.
On the merger, from here it looks to be getting closer the rhetoric of having 5 teams or nothing seems to have died over last year or so, as realism of costs etc has settled back in? Well that is impression what I have read admittedly in paper reports and on rugby sites etc.

 

[stillmissit]

I have been of the view that the toughest gig for Super Rugby was always going to be Melbourne. I applaud what has been achieved by the guys in Melbourne and if one team has to go. I'm of the view it ha to be them.
This is no easy decision for RA to make but that is my take on it. To dump a pretty successful team in the ACT would be crazy and I would rather ()if we have to) throw money at the ACT than Melbourne.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Unlike the cricket formats, changing from rugby to sevens also isn’t just about some tactical change ups and length of the game.

Pretty much half a regular rugby team not only doesn’t take the field, but also isn’t suited to the game.

One of things rugby definitely has going for it over other contact sports in Australia is they’ll find a position for literally any body shape and skill level. Sure, the other sports will spruik they can do that, but even if rugby league the biggest bloke on the field still needs to be a great tackler and ball runner.

T20 Cricket is the same game just condensed. 7s Rugby is a different activity using the same players and skills.

Sure, some players suited to T20, ODI, Test are completely different but it's still the same game.


I wonder if as the game became professional and the standards lifted in training and performance we lost part of that game for all. We became very metric driven in youth levels and lost the bloke who may have said he had a twinge when the cones are on the field and no balls but he is an animal in a game and could destroy a scrum. We have all heard them say George Smith would struggle to get a look in these days (I don't really believe that. I think he did what he needed to do to get on the field and then work his magic.) But it's those guys with that difference I don't see coming through anymore. We're very good at churning out the prototype.

There has been a steady decline in the suburban level game which feels like a canary in the coal mine for the game for all mindset.

 

[Tomikin]

I’m fairly optimistic about the bounce back factor in 2024.
I am greatly concerned about the financial situation of 3 of our super rugby franchises.
Is a merger likely?

Only if you want to kill the both teams

 

[Alex Sharpe]

Any talk of a merger needs to be binned ASAP. It is not in any way a feasible option.
You might as well just cut both teams because that's what you will be doing to the supporter base. No diehard Brumbies fan is getting around an ACT-Melbourne Hybrid.

 

[Wallaby Ways]

I think the loan money will keep them afloat.
Can’t see a merger working in any way.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I think the loan money will keep them afloat.
Can’t see a merger working in any way.

It's the paying it back part though.

 

[LevitatingSocks]

T20 Cricket is the same game just condensed. 7s Rugby is a different activity using the same players and skills.

Sure, some players suited to T20, ODI, Test are completely different but it's still the same game.


I wonder if as the game became professional and the standards lifted in training and performance we lost part of that game for all. We became very metric driven in youth levels and lost the bloke who may have said he had a twinge when the cones are on the field and no balls but he is an animal in a game and could destroy a scrum. We have all heard them say George Smith would struggle to get a look in these days (I don't really believe that. I think he did what he needed to do to get on the field and then work his magic.) But it's those guys with that difference I don't see coming through anymore. We're very good at churning out the prototype.

There has been a steady decline in the suburban level game which feels like a canary in the coal mine for the game for all mindset.

I think everything you've said is correct, it's hard to deny that the game loses a bit of magic as fitness and measurable are emphasized more.

However, my feeling is that this isn't a rugby specific trend. All sports are trending toward getting kids in the gym at a younger age, training harder, and specializing in a sport/position earlier. With rare exception of athletes that are genetic freaks of nature, I think those poor trainers who only shine in games are disappearing from all disciplines.

There's two questions in here:

Is this trend affecting rugby to a disproportionate degree compared to other codes? And if so, why?

 

[Wallaby Ways]

It's the paying it back part though.

It’ll be from the Lions windfall.
My hope is that RA have considered ways to totally maximise profits from the trip right down to junior and community clubs planning and hosting events which will gain interest from the travelling fans.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I think everything you've said is correct, it's hard to deny that the game loses a bit of magic as fitness and measurable are emphasized more.

However, my feeling is that this isn't a rugby specific trend. All sports are trending toward getting kids in the gym at a younger age, training harder, and specializing in a sport/position earlier. With rare exception of athletes that are genetic freaks of nature, I think those poor trainers who only shine in games are disappearing from all disciplines.

There's two questions in here:

Is this trend affecting rugby to a disproportionate degree compared to other codes? And if so, why?

I think it is across the board but could change Rugby more. My thoughts would be that we can have a 6'2 130kg, 6'8 120kg, 6' 100kg & 6' 85kg player all on the same field at the same time with completetly different roles. This variations isn't the same in other sports like Aussie Rules and even Rugby League. It is what it is though and it's not going back.

I will say that measuring athletes is getting better in Rugby and it's not just the same test for everyone as it was not that long ago. Methods of getting the work into them to get a desired result are becoming more tuned in. Hopefully it pays off.

 

[hoggy]

It’ll be from the Lions windfall.
My hope is that RA have considered ways to totally maximise profits from the trip right down to junior and community clubs planning and hosting events which will gain interest from the travelling fans.

Those maximized profits from both the Lions & World cups will barely pay back the potential 120 million debt they will incur up to 2027

The issue rugby has is what happens then

 

[stillmissit]

I think it is across the board but could change Rugby more. My thoughts would be that we can have a 6'2 130kg, 6'8 120kg, 6' 100kg & 6' 85kg player all on the same field at the same time with completetly different roles. This variations isn't the same in other sports like Aussie Rules and even Rugby League. It is what it is though and it's not going back.

I will say that measuring athletes is getting better in Rugby and it's not just the same test for everyone as it was not that long ago. Methods of getting the work into them to get a desired result are becoming more tuned in. Hopefully it pays off.

Ghost, the pursuit of big guys everywhere has been a detriment to our sport. We need fast skilful players, at the moment we take fast skilful players and put 10kg on them then wonder where the speed went. The rule change to tackling may impact this.

 

[Ignoto]

The only thing Eddie Jones has been right about recently is, the need for the game to introduce more fatigue on our players. The increase to bench sizes allows for bigger blokes and bigger collisions along with better organised defences. We run the risk of turning into league where there's no difference in player sizes.

Drop the bench sizes but have on stand by the extra players for HIA (I'm well aware it can be gamed).

 

[Adam84]

The only thing Eddie Jones has been right about recently is, the need for the game to introduce more fatigue on our players. The increase to bench sizes allows for bigger blokes and bigger collisions along with better organised defences. We run the risk of turning into league where there's no difference in player sizes.

Drop the bench sizes but have on stand by the extra players for HIA (I'm well aware it can be gamed).

it's a fine line to walk, trying to juggle WHS and player welfare, versus the need to fatigue players and limit interchange.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

The only thing Eddie Jones has been right about recently is, the need for the game to introduce more fatigue on our players. The increase to bench sizes allows for bigger blokes and bigger collisions along with better organised defences. We run the risk of turning into league where there's no difference in player sizes.

Drop the bench sizes but have on stand by the extra players for HIA (I'm well aware it can be gamed).

Even League figured that out and is bringing back the smaller guy now with the speed up of play and drop of interchange over the last decade. It was becoming fatigueless when they had 12 interchange and even 8. Games get more points and it keeps the chance of a comeback alive. Being up 12 in an NRL game in the last 7-8 mins doesn't guarantee a win at all now.

I'd fully support having HIA players and a smaller bench.

 

[John S]

Even League figured that out and is bringing back the smaller guy now with the speed up of play and drop of interchange over the last decade. It was becoming fatigueless when they had 12 interchange and even 8. Games get more points and it keeps the chance of a comeback alive. Being up 12 in an NRL game in the last 7-8 mins doesn't guarantee a win at all now.

I'd fully support having HIA players and a smaller bench.

How big was the bench before? I thought it's always been 8 on the bench? (It is probably that I have been unobservant or quite forgetful of things from before yesterday)

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

How big was the bench before? I thought it's always been 8 on the bench? (It is probably that I have been unobservant or quite forgetful of things from before yesterday)

NRL bench is 4 players + 1 HIA replacement which needs 2 players to be ruled out with concussion to be activated. The number of interchanges though was 12 in the mid 2000s which was silly. Could give your forwards multiple rests in a game or carry a monster with the intension of them only needing to do a 10 min smash up then bring back a starter.

 

[John S]

NRL bench is 4 players + 1 HIA replacement which needs 2 players to be ruled out with concussion to be activated. The number of interchanges though was 12 in the mid 2000s which was silly. Could give your forwards multiple rests in a game or carry a monster with the intension of them only needing to do a 10 min smash up then bring back a starter.

Sorry, I meant Union bench - I don't really care about NRL bench. I must have misread some of the above thread - was thinking there was some discussion about size of union benches. My bad

 

[Wilson]

Sorry, I meant Union bench - I don't really care about NRL bench. I must have misread some of the above thread - was thinking there was some discussion about size of union benches. My bad

Union benches used to be 7 until they brought in HIAs and concussion protocols, that's when the 8th player was added alongside the requirement to have a full replacement front row

 

[wamberal99]

They've got to tidy up the ridiculous situation that ensues when a hooker gets a card. Ruins the game.