Australian Rugby / RA

[Slim 293]

Didn't you lot take a CEO to court to stop him blabbing about all the self interest decisions Fagan made though?

I'd say those self interests only harmed the Brumbies...

 

[Slim 293]

Its not even clear centralisation would have any negative effect on them at all.

They're obviously supportive of centralisation, and they're not the only team pushing back with conditions...

And while I'm optimistic there will be a compromise, RA going hard on the Brumbies in desperation to get something right is not going to achieve anything.

 

[Slim 293]

It is ironic, but you don't improve unless you learn from the past, and you can't change the past.

But have they actually learned anything?

 

[Derpus]

They're obviously supportive of centralisation, and they're not the only team pushing back with conditions...

And while I'm optimistic there will be a compromise, Rugby Australia going hard on the Brumbies in desperation to get something right is not going to achieve anything.

Might achieve centralisation...?

 

[LeCheese]

They're obviously supportive of centralisation, and they're not the only team pushing back with conditions...

And while I'm optimistic there will be a compromise, Rugby Australia going hard on the Brumbies in desperation to get something right is not going to achieve anything.

But they are the only club painting this as a hostile takeover, fight for their survival, etc. in the media. It's frankly bizarre and does absolutely nothing to help the situation.

 

[Wilson]

But they are the only club painting this as a hostile takeover, fight for their survival, etc. in the media. It's frankly bizarre and does absolutely nothing to help the situation.

In fairness they also appear to be the only club RA has sent the auditors into and generally come at with a degree of hostility.

 

[noscrumnolife]

They're obviously supportive of centralisation, and they're not the only team pushing back with conditions...

And while I'm optimistic there will be a compromise, Rugby Australia going hard on the Brumbies in desperation to get something right is not going to achieve anything.

Not really what's happened though. Every other state has entered into good faith negotiations and things seem to be progressing well. The Brumbies have shut up shop and are forcing things down a legal avenue out of the siege mentality/victim complex they have adopted for most of their existence. No one else seems to have a problem opening their books up I wonder why? But no we must fall down at the feet of the enormously successful franchise that hasn't won a competition since 2004. The CEO is running the exact same crappy tired media games as McLennan but in the Canberra Times, perhaps they have more in common than they think.

Compare QRU (who have more of a reason to hold commercial reservations because they are actually a financially competent organisation) to the Brums. Night and day. They have not been screeching from the rooftops about how hard done by they are.

 

[Slim 293]

Not really what's happened though. Every other state has entered into good faith negotiations and things seem to be progressing well. The Brumbies have shut up shop and are forcing things down a legal avenue out of the siege mentality/victim complex they have adopted for most of their existence. No one else seems to have a problem opening their books up I wonder why? But no we must fall down at the feet of the enormously successful franchise that hasn't won a competition since 2004. The CEO is running the exact same crappy tired media games as McLennan but in the Canberra Times, perhaps they have more in common than they think.

Compare QRU (who have more of a reason to hold commercial reservations because they are actually a financially competent organisation) to the Brums. Night and day. They have not been screeching from the rooftops about how hard done by they are.

So, QRU won't hand over their IP either?

Gotcha...

 

[LeCheese]

In fairness they also appear to be the only club Rugby Australia has sent the auditors into and generally come at with a degree of hostility.

Fair, but weren't the reports that the Brums were being quite guarded with their financials (more so than the other clubs), somewhat forcing RA's hand? I would also imagine the Brums had outlined their position on centralisation/alignment behind closed doors before it all kicked off, and it was more a case of RA pushing back (publicly).

 

[Slim 293]

Fair, but weren't the reports that the Brums were being quite guarded with their financials (more so than the other clubs), somewhat forcing Rugby Australia's hand? I would also imagine the Brums had outlined their position on centralisation/alignment behind closed doors before it all kicked off, and it was more a case of Rugby Australia pushing back (publicly).

From what I understand the Brumbies had already proven to RA that they're solvent, and RA came back at them again for another round...

 

[LeCheese]

From what I understand the Brumbies had already proven to Rugby Australia that they're solvent, and Rugby Australia came back at them again for another round...

I assume that RA, understandably, wanted more info over and above solvency - of course, it's all speculation without actually knowing what was/wasn't handed over. What isn't speculation is the Us vs Them mentality installed through hyperbolic media statements from club officials and aligned press. Again, it's just bizarre.

 

[Wilson]

Fair, but weren't the reports that the Brums were being quite guarded with their financials (more so than the other clubs), somewhat forcing Rugby Australia's hand? I would also imagine the Brums had outlined their position on centralisation/alignment behind closed doors before it all kicked off, and it was more a case of Rugby Australia pushing back (publicly).

I don't remember seeing that but it could've been the case. Mostly it was just that both the Brumbies and Reds were resistant to commercial centralisation from the start with the Brumbies seeing it as an existential threat that needed to be fought against and QLD having the financial clout to just say no and leave it at that. It does seem like the approach has been different for each side in ways that don't entirely make sense.

For example, if you're going to call in the auditors at one side "copy financial histories and check compliance with contracting rules" wouldn't it have made sense to audit all 5 super rugby sides and start from an even base across the sides and a position of maximum knowledge in outlining what centralisation might look like?

 

[LeCheese]

I don't remember seeing that but it could've been the case. Mostly it was just that both the Brumbies and Reds were resistant to commercial centralisation from the start with the Brumbies seeing it as an existential threat that needed to be fought against and QLD having the financial clout to just say no and leave it at that. It does seem like the approach has been different for each side in ways that don't entirely make sense.

For example, if you're going to call in the auditors at one side "copy financial histories and check compliance with contracting rules" wouldn't it have made sense to audit all 5 super rugby sides and start from an even base across the sides and a position of maximum knowledge in outlining what centralisation might look like?

No arguments there - I just can't see that RA would've called in the auditors without just cause, be it discrepancies, reason for doubts, or info being withheld.

 

[chiraag]

Possibly stupid question, but is Rugby Australia solvent given their RWC cost overruns, private equity deal falling through and currently unfulfilled search for additional debt?

 

[Wallaby Man]

With NSW signing it’s basically inevitable that everyone will come into the fold now. If Rebels follow suit that creates a block of voting power. We also have the migration of contracts to RA based from state based. Obviously it will be split for the short term with some players signing to franchises and others with the national body, but what this could force is influx of talent to NSW and Melb if others don’t come into the fold because RA can focus more resources into these players with organizations they control.

I’d suspect the Brumbies know this and are playing for semantics as their influence diminishes. It’s going one way if people like it or not. The only way this wasn’t going to work would be if QLD and NSW said no. But the dam has busted now with NSW signing up.

 

[Wilson]

With NSW signing it’s basically inevitable that everyone will come into the fold now. If Rebels follow suit that creates a block of voting power. We also have the migration of contracts to Rugby Australia based from state based. Obviously it will be split for the short term with some players signing to franchises and others with the national body, but what this could force is influx of talent to NSW and Melb if others don’t come into the fold because Rugby Australia can focus more resources into these players with organizations they control.

I’d suspect the Brumbies know this and are playing for semantics as their influence diminishes. It’s going one way if people like it or not. The only way this wasn’t going to work would be if QLD and NSW said no. But the dam has busted now with NSW signing up.

Might want to read the fine print - when RA takes control of a super license that vote becomes void. So if Melbourne follow NSW into commercial centralisation the voting block that is potentially created is QLD/ACT/WA controlling half of all votes, one short of a majority which could be delivered by RUPA or any of the nonprofessional states or territories.

 

[Brumby Runner]

With NSW signing it’s basically inevitable that everyone will come into the fold now. If Rebels follow suit that creates a block of voting power. We also have the migration of contracts to Rugby Australia based from state based. Obviously it will be split for the short term with some players signing to franchises and others with the national body, but what this could force is influx of talent to NSW and Melb if others don’t come into the fold because Rugby Australia can focus more resources into these players with organizations they control.

I’d suspect the Brumbies know this and are playing for semantics as their influence diminishes. It’s going one way if people like it or not. The only way this wasn’t going to work would be if QLD and NSW said no. But the dam has busted now with NSW signing up.

I don't see it at all that the dam has broken with NSW signing on to centralisation. Even RA has conceded that the model could be different for one or some of the teams, and the fact NSW has fallen over doesn't mean the flood gates will open in all franchises. There is clearly an opportunity for the Brumbies and Reds (mainly) to negotiate a part deal, and I believe that is exactly what is going on.

The Brumbies have reacted differently to the Reds in this whole exercise because there is a fear that if RA own the whole show they could decide to shut down the operations in Canberra or move them elsewhere, while there is absolutely no fear of something similar happening to the Reds. It is my understanding from public utterances that both the Reds and Brumbies hold similar concerns about the proposal put forward by RA.

Anyway. long live the Rugby Australia Waratahs. Based on the history of RA mismanagement there is a distinct possibility it will be all downhill now for the pale blues.

 

[Slim 293]

Anyways...

“We’ve already given that guarantee and that’s already been committed to the Brumbies,” Waugh said when asked if he could guarantee the Brumbies would stay in Canberra.

“I’ve got a really close relationship with Chairman Matt Nobbs and (CEO) Phil Thomson and we’re making good progress.

“It’s been a bit noisy in the media but I do feel like since the World Cup and over the last couple of weeks we’ve made some better progress than where we were three or four weeks ago.

“There’s a lot to do but I do feel fairly optimistic about the direction we’re going.”

Waugh concedes they need to build trust with the Brumbies and the three other Super Rugby clubs yet to sign, confident further announcements will follow shortly.

“I think it’s around trust,” Waugh said.

“It’s about the security of the Brumbies remaining in Canberra and the IP, which we’ve given. I think that now it’s about working through what a structure looks like from a day to day management but overlaying and underpinning all of that building trust.

“We don’t see it as a takeover. It’s (about) integration, partnership and alignment. I think some of the concerns around the location of the Brumbies are seen as a takeover but we do not see it that way.

“At the end of the day, the member unions and community own Rugby, not Rugby Australia. We’re here to do the best we possibly can for Rugby in the country and that’s about driving the high-performance elements as well as looking after our community game."

ACT Brumbies not going anywhere - RA CEO Waugh

Rugby Australia CEO Phil Waugh has assured the ACT Brumbies will stay in the nation's capital amid centralisation discussions.

www.rugby.com.au

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I don't see it at all that the dam has broken with NSW signing on to centralisation. Even Rugby Australia has conceded that the model could be different for one or some of the teams, and the fact NSW has fallen over doesn't mean the flood gates will open in all franchises. There is clearly an opportunity for the Brumbies and Reds (mainly) to negotiate a part deal, and I believe that is exactly what is going on.

The Brumbies have reacted differently to the Reds in this whole exercise because there is a fear that if Rugby Australia own the whole show they could decide to shut down the operations in Canberra or move them elsewhere, while there is absolutely no fear of something similar happening to the Reds. It is my understanding from public utterances that both the Reds and Brumbies hold similar concerns about the proposal put forward by Rugby Australia.

Anyway. long live the Rugby Australia Waratahs. Based on the history of Rugby Australia mismanagement there is a distinct possibility it will be all downhill now for the pale blues.

For the sake of Brumbies recruitment of players you better hope not.

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

https://www.footyindustry.com/sponsorship/2022-rugby-australia-annual-report/

interesting reading. I wonder how much the report will change for this year.