Australian Rugby / RA

[The_Brown_Hornet]

It's a tough one with employee/player behaviour and how much you tolerate. Individuals can be brilliant at their jobs but some come into the category of brilliant jerks. When things are going really well you may tolerate it for a bit, but when it goes the opposite way they can become a cancer. Elevating one or a small group of individuals above the group and accepting their poor behaviour pisses other people off and they leave or their own performance falls away. I've seen it so many times.

Sometimes the best thing to do is to cut the disrupters loose or tell them to go away and grow up first.

 

[stillmissit]

It's interesting to note that some of the biggest omissions in this years RWC (Cooper and Hooper) early on in their careers were on the dickhead spectrum.

Cooper came to the Reds with a stench of being a laptop thief and there was the infamous 'Stradbroke Island pub' incident where he was a bit of a pest whilst on one leg.

Hooper just after being made Wallabies captain got on the piss at Bryon and was swinging from signs while a mate of his jumped on cars. Don't forget he was also part of the Di Paterson shitshow.

Both seemed to mature out later on and became well respected members of the squad and in the public.

On the other end, you've got JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) who took a bit longer to get there and I'll leave Beale out of this conversation as I've spoken to death about his off-field transgressions.

I think JOC (James O'Connor) might have taken longer but I think he rebuilt himself, Cooper and Hooper just matured.

 

[rodha]

McQueen introduced player power as a means to get buy in from all players. Like many great ideas at the time the final outcome was pretty poor. Players in Deans time already had the entitlement gene and the 3 amigo's were a perfect example of that.
Deans attempted to get Beale to grow up and spent a lot of time with him but he was a spoilt kid and appears to have remained so.
McKenzie's troubles were a result of a well meaning solution to a problem by McQueen. I think we had a wonderful time with McQueen and Jones managed to get to the final 2003 with a good number of McQueen's team BUT they were never as good as when McQueen was coach.

Stillmissit I would counter that by pointing out that it was the same senior Brumbies players who effectively bullied McQueen into resigning from the Wallabies job that were also responsible for Nucifora's sacking at the Brumbies. It seems the best coaches bring a certain intensity & ruthlessness which established players feel threatened by and therefore aren't popular figures, iirc White despite his success wasn't very well liked amongst senior Brumbies either. The story goes Nucifora wanted to cut some of the dead wood like Justin Harrison and they cried about it to Rob Clarke. Making ruthless decisions for the betterment of the team is a necessary part of the job.

 

[Slim 293]

Stillmissit I would counter that by pointing out that it was the same senior Brumbies players who effectively bullied McQueen into resigning from the Wallabies job that were also responsible for Nucifora's sacking at the Brumbies. It seems the best coaches bring a certain intensity & ruthlessness which established players feel threatened by and therefore aren't popular figures, iirc White despite his success wasn't very well liked amongst senior Brumbies either. The story goes Nucifora wanted to cut some of the dead wood like Justin Harrison and they cried about it to Rob Clarke. Making ruthless decisions for the betterment of the team is a necessary part of the job.

Wow, but… no.

 

[Italophile]

I think JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) might have taken longer but I think he rebuilt himself, Cooper and Hooper just matured.

JOC (James O'Connor)'s issues started with his father and the manufacture of the "JOC (James O'Connor) Brand". Ego and self-indulgence derailed a very talented young player. To his credit, he seemed to overcome the handicaps. But what a waste of talent in the meantime.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Yep, there was a generation of potentially great Wallabies who for various reasons didn't always scale the heights or at least not at the same time. Imagine Genia, Cooper, Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) combining with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchell and Gits and all of them on the same page as their coach(es) at the same time. That's a dynamite back line right there.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Ah well been there done that now. Let's hope they can get it together for the next lot; Jorgenson, Flook, Nawaqanitawase, Gordon, Sua'ali'i etc..

Has there been anymore names thrown about for the HP role? I pray it's not Turinui. I know when he was with the Rebels some of the players had the opinion of good bloke but no idea.

 

[Adam84]

Which successful Rebels playing group was that?

 

[RugbyReg]

We’ll hear the first announcement around centralisation this morning.

 

[Wilson]

We’ll hear the first announcement around centralisation this morning.

This one?

NSW Waratahs, Rugby Australia sign centralisation deal

www.rugby.com.au

It comes after RA's announcement of a 'reset' of the game in August, set to come into effect from January 1 2024.

“We have a plan that we are working on to unite the game – it will take the whole game to rebuild a system that delivers success on and off the field," RA CEO Phil Waugh said. “We have agreement from the five Australian Super Rugby clubs that we need to be pursuing an aligned high-performance system and pathways. “There may be different models across different clubs, however the Waratahs have been very clear that they see great benefits in aligning their commercial operations with RA’s, as we look to achieve maximum commercial return and efficiency for the game. “I firmly believe that this strategic reset is in the best interests of the game – and crucially, it delivers even greater priority to strengthening the community game; ringfencing investment in the community game and allowing state unions to focus entirely on grassroots and participation without the distraction of professional Rugby. “It will allow the game to develop fully aligned pathways and high-performance structures to deliver lasting success for Australian Super Rugby clubs and our national teams."

 

[Wilson]

Sounds like there's a press conference for this kicking off in ~15 minutes

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1724174668452749396

 

[stillmissit]

Stillmissit I would counter that by pointing out that it was the same senior Brumbies players who effectively bullied McQueen into resigning from the Wallabies job that were also responsible for Nucifora's sacking at the Brumbies. It seems the best coaches bring a certain intensity & ruthlessness which established players feel threatened by and therefore aren't popular figures, iirc White despite his success wasn't very well liked amongst senior Brumbies either. The story goes Nucifora wanted to cut some of the dead wood like Justin Harrison and they cried about it to Rob Clarke. Making ruthless decisions for the betterment of the team is a necessary part of the job.

I agree with a fair bit of this but I have never heard, nor remember reading anything in McQueen's biography (which I stupidly gave away) that the Brumbies players forced him out of the Wallaby job. I thought he stated that he'd had enough after 4 years.
If you give people power then don't be surprised when they use it in ways you did not envisage.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Which successful Rebels playing group was that?

Fair point. He was also a coach in the group contributing to their performance.

 

[stillmissit]

JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor)'s issues started with his father and the manufacture of the "JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) Brand". Ego and self-indulgence derailed a very talented young player. To his credit, he seemed to overcome the handicaps. But what a waste of talent in the meantime.

Young men are prone to stupidity, not all of them but enough to cause some chaos. JOC (James O'Connor) strikes me as a fine advert for picking yourself up and not expecting others to just put up with you.

 

[Slim 293]

“We are committed to the removal of the inherent conflicts and self-interest that have constrained meaningful progress in the past, and we are committed to the alignment of the high-performance and commercial operations between our club and Rugby Australia.

 

[Pfitzy]

It is ironic, but you don't improve unless you learn from the past, and you can't change the past.

 

[Pfitzy]

I still see Brumbies people on social media loudly proclaiming that RA will never take their franchise.

The belief that everything is OK as long as your backyard is OK is peak rugby.

Let's ignore the fact that they rely on other states for the majority of their playing stocks, and are about as financially sustainable as the Tahs and Rebels, yeah?

 

[Pfitzy]

It is ironic, but you don't improve unless you learn from the past, and you can't change the past.

On another note: It will be interesting to see whether the promised lift in community support from NSWRU eventuates, and how

 

[Ignoto]

Didn't you lot take a CEO to court to stop him blabbing about all the self interest decisions Fagan made though?

 

[Derpus]

I don't really get the fuss from Brumbies fans. Whats it, like 25 years old? Its not like RA are looking to wipe out a century of sporting tradition. Its not even clear centralisation would have any negative effect on them at all.

Plus they seem about as financially viable in the long term as the rest. What with their 10 aging fans and bizarre property dealings.