Australian Rugby / RA

[Tomikin]

Yep….so you can’t quote me saying

‘it’s not important for young people to have opportunities to play professional rugby’

What I actually said was


Providing opportunities to young people with talent and work ethic instead of just young people who want it and get it largely to make up the numbers to fill whatever your desired number of professional teams.

Yes - you do hate Aotearoa rugby which is why you make up bullshit about what I’ve said.

No mate you're just that patronizing arrogant argumentative kiwi I spoke about and don't like. You have for weeks on end argued with multiple posters across multiple threads just rubbish...
You clearly have no idea what Australian fans want, because you're not one.

And please stop telling people myself and others what we think and feel..

Granted I ain't interested in NZ rugby but why should I be. I dont hate them I just have no care. What I don't do though he is go over the silver fern and carry on like a prat

I'm done talking to you.. it's time you go have an irrational argument with another poster... there's plenty of others you can tell try and project onto..

 

[shanky]

what?

haven’t you been invited on a stockbroker‘s RWC corporate junket (or at least a box at the final) before?




(it’s a joke)

 

[Bullrush]

I'm done talking to you..

Good. You’ll stop lying about what I’ve said.

Mate.

 

[Members Section]

haven’t you been invited on a stockbroker‘s RWC corporate junket (or at least a box at the final) before?




(it’s a joke)

yeah my post wasn’t, even if most of everyone on here went to private school doesn’t mean they don’t work hard & spent an absolute fortune to go only to have it hijacked by an egomaniac who at 1st opportunity took more money

 

[shanky]

yeah my post wasn’t, even if most of everyone on here went to private school doesn’t mean they don’t work hard & spent an absolute fortune to go only to have it hijacked by an egomaniac who at 1st opportunity took more money

Give it a rest mate

how many ockers are saving up to go to a rah-rah world cup in… France

your indignation about Eddie doesn’t mean we can’t also have a chuckle on the otherside
and trust me, spending time with stockbrokers in return for a freebie is a trial in itself. Torture, darling

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Well I'm an Ocker and I've saved my shekels to go to two overseas RWC's and wanted to go to this one. Ticketing issues prevented that and in hindsight it was probably a blessing.

EJ (Eddie Jones) can go forth and multiply as far as I'm concerned.

 

[shanky]

I apologise for any unwelcome drollery and withdraw accordingly.

 

[Wallaby Man]

1. Do you want to play Super Rugby or not? Make up your mind.

2. If there is a competition above your current competition that you have to qualify for, your competitions can’t be on the same level.

2. Yes you can, it’s what European football, European basketball and European rugby are all built on. It’s not tiered it’s just a different comp to win. Most euro teams in the champions cup only play 4 mixed international club comp games a year. It’s hardly what’s driving the improvement over there, it’s the 20+ game domestic comps that’s driving the drastic improvements and the immense resources and ultra professionalism from school to national team.

Now I’m not in the camp of completely burning things down as I think it’s nonsensical to have a 8-10 team comp given lack of Aus rugby popularity and resources, it would be closer to semi pro than professional. But I would like a reimagined Super Rugby where potentially a domestic SRAU or SRAo is played before the teams experience cross national comp. Or at least something that provides considerably better engagement.

 

[Dan54]

Yeah. As if the fans know what they want? The experts know what they really want. That's why rugby is going from strength to strength, selling out stadiums and raking in record TV deals.

All those fans calling for a local competition that has greater fan engagement and teams they can support and watch win occasionally? Pathetic moron cowards.

To be fair Derpus not sure that Bullrush was ever saying that fans don't know what they want, but was suggesting that fans know what they want for themselves without knowing what is involved to actually get it too work

We have exactly same from fans here in NZ, who regardless of what I read here have many that wouldn't care if Super rugby wasn't played. I was talking to a fella at golf club on Wednesday and this exact thing was discussed, he had watched about 2-3 games of super rugby, but like me almost never missed NPC and is seen on sidelines of club rugby almost every week.
He did say he didn't watch it and hadn't really thought about tv money etc if there was no super , just didn't interest him much.

We all know how many Super got at 1 or 2 games when covid was on, and al though you probably didn't notice NZ had great crowds (a lot better than Aus) during that period. But I not sure it was ever a way to measure how you run a comp. Also I pretty sure Bullrush has ever suggested that a domestic comp in Aus isn't a great idea, NZ and as you have pointed out most top countries have them, but not alone and there is the crux.

 

[Dan54]

Both NZ and Australia are better developing their own Domestic cup and then building a Southern Hemisphere Cup comp on top

Why would a domestic comp be 3rd tier? That’s just a bitter comment without anything to back it up

NZ have a bloody good domestic comp already mate, not sure if you have heard of the NPC, and you right it's very similar to what I believe Aus should be developing.
You will also know that places like Wales,Ireland etc that main level of rugby ir URC and then Heineken cup etc, also have pretty good comps below. They don't pull out of top comps but have all streamlined their professional game at top level and have a pro/semi pro level below it at same time.
European rugby to fans over there doesn't involve just Top 14/Enlish championship etc , but whole layers of rugby with players feeding into higher levels.
While not suggesting that super rugby is the answer or anything, tiers of rugby is perhaps the way to go, at the moment countries like NZ have club/NPC/spuper , England have (not sure of names) a secondary Championship comp , and above that the Gallagher Championship etc, and the Europeans comp etc. And many cub comps semi pro below that. France etc are similar. Just pointing out that these comps are generally all played at same times.
So the answer for Rugby in Aus? Perhaps somebody knows , but even on here you can't get all Aussie fans aligned on what they want, so I suggest you have to hope the ones who are charged with running the game know more?

 

[Adam84]

Just bring back Super Rugby AU and evolve it from there with a championship style comp involving Japan, NZ and maybe Argentina sitting parallel

 

[Bullrush]

1. In its current format, no. I want a Champions cup featuring NZ, Aus, Japanese, South American and PI teams as well as a domestic comp
2. We might as well stop this conversation as you clearly don’t understand how European club comps operate. The Champions Cup is very important, but is no more important for the Clubs than the Top 14 title, Premiership or URC

You just want the status Quo

1. Super Rugby Au, Super Rugby Aotearoa, the Sunwolves, The Jaguares, Moana Pasifika and the Drua.

I've said we need Super Rugby and a strong domestic comp. I'm not really sure where we differ. I'm not too fussed about how you decide which teams Australia put into the Super Rugby comp or even how many. I just want them to be competitive. I've talked about the need to identify talent, the need for better coaching through the levels and I would add the need for more professional games. What I'm against is the ‘Fuck NZ' idea of leaving Super Rugby altogether. Which has been pushed here by others if not by you.

2. The Champions Cup is the best of the best competing. The best players in Europe competing against each other. This is what Super Rugby used to be for the Southern Hemisphere except even better. Losing (or dumping) SA was, IMO, a dumb move by NZ because I think players get better by competing against the best.

I have been a proponent of opening up player movement, I’ve shifted my opinion in terms of reducing Australian teams, I’ve repeatedly said Australia needs a domestic competition, I’ve said Aotearoa needs Australia just as much as the reverse and if need be, should re-look at the revenue sharing agreement.

Simply because I think Super Rugby is an integral part of Australian rugby’s future and pathway back to the top makes me status quo?

 

[Tomthumb]

NZ have a bloody good domestic comp already mate, not sure if you have heard of the NPC, and you right it's very similar to what I believe Aus should be developing.

Yes I have heard of the NPC, I watch it in fact. I watched Hawkes Bay take the shield off Wellington in front of about 7 people. Every NPC game costs around $200,000 to run and no one goes to the games. Hence why your own CEO said "The NPC is not fit for purpose"

And he's right. NZ should have leaned into their provincial unions years ago, instead of these "franchises" thought up by some marketing guru

 

[HogansHeros]

What I'm against is the ‘Fuck Nidea of leaving Super Rugby altogether. Which has been pushed here by others if not by you.

Can you please quote where people have suggested to leave super rugby/some sort of international comp altogether.

 

[Tomthumb]

1. Super Rugby Au, Super Rugby Aotearoa, the Sunwolves, The Jaguares, Moana Pasifika and the Drua.

I've said we need Super Rugby and a strong domestic comp. I'm not really sure where we differ. I'm not too fussed about how you decide which teams Australia put into the Super Rugby comp or even how many. I just want them to be competitive. I've talked about the need to identify talent, the need for better coaching through the levels and I would add the need for more professional games. What I'm against is the ‘Fuck Nidea of leaving Super Rugby altogether. Which has been pushed here by others if not by you.

2. The Champions Cup is the best of the best competing. The best players in Europe competing against each other. This is what Super Rugby used to be for the Southern Hemisphere except even better. Losing (or dumping) SA was, IMO, a dumb move by NZ because I think players get better by competing against the best.

I have been a proponent of opening up player movement, I’ve shifted my opinion in terms of reducing Australian teams, I’ve repeatedly said Australia needs a domestic competition, I’ve said Aotearoa needs Australia just as much as the reverse and if need be, should re-look at the revenue sharing agreement.

Simply because I think Super Rugby is an integral part of Australian rugby’s future and pathway back to the top makes me status quo?

Yes, the champions cup is the best of the best competing, but tribalism, rivalries and fan passion is built in Domestic Leagues like the Top 14. You wont beat the atmosphere of a Toulouse vs Castres match anywhere

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

I think the need is for one of the following
1) SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) but with home and away games so that we get more rugby. Expand squads to compensate for extra games which gives more players big game experience.
2) Aus conference plus Fiji doing home and away games. NZ and Moana doing the same. Then an inter conference round. 10 inter conference games and 6 inter conference games (more games) with top top
Teams from each conference to finals and next 2 from each into wild card playoff.
3) domestic rugby comp with eventually 8 teams ideally that plays home and away. Trouble is this isn’t enough games I think. Maybe there’s an Asia Pac championship cup. Maybe people care about it…..probably have to restrict it to 8 teams. Top two japan, aus, best island team and who knows 8th but I don’t think Argentina makes a ton of sense. Maybe a playoff for final spot.

Second tier is super rugby a which achieves cost efficiencies and is a shorter season and brands are established versus made up teams. Second tier is never going to get huge crowds in my mind so you need to find a structure that is financially efficient.

 

[Dan54]

Yes I have heard of the NPC, I watch it in fact. I watched Hawkes Bay take the shield off Wellington in front of about 7 people. Every NPC game costs around $200,000 to run and no one goes to the games. Hence why your own CEO said "The NPC is not fit for purpose"

And he's right. NZ should have leaned into their provincial unions years ago, instead of these "franchises" thought up by some marketing guru

Yep there isn't great crowds but the tv revenue etc and eyes on game is all anyone really counts. I live in the country and reasonably confident of what people are talking about when they talking of games, and I would suggest NPC gets plenty of tv watching. We have do have disadvantage of Qld etc, in that weather is not condusive to going to games at night at moment ie it's cold (I still go). And yes the CEO says it not fit for purpose and what does that mean? It needs a few tweeks to make it affordable for less well off provinces, and has alway been tweeked with at times 3 levels etc. The comp is not the problem, merely the number of pro players , and so probably needs 2-3 less teams .
Yes it is better than super to watch (and bloody WC) as it is not bogged down with TMOs.
The unfortunate thing for Aus rugby is you can't have a 5 team comp and generate interest long term, and to make up more teams is bloody costly, and you have same problem of generating interest.
The things that have changes in both NZ and Australia from the hey days of times gone by is professionalism and the need to sell something to tv stations.
I read about domestic comps with a champions play off with Japan, SA etc? Perhaps noone else needs/want them, and there is the prob?
I kind of think some smarter people than us are also trying to work it out.

 

[John S]

‘I’m committed to Australia’: Eddie Jones says he’s had no discussions with Japanese rugby

The Wallabies coach has arrived back in Australia after the Wallabies’ disastrous World Cup campaign.

www.smh.com.au

Eddie Watch continues. Apparently there will be a presser on Monday where this will all be addressed.

EJ (Eddie Jones) still being adamant he's had no contact, and committed to Australia.

 

[Bullrush]

Can you please quote where people have suggested to leave super rugby/some sort of international comp altogether.

Sure.

Surely the point to take is we have to stop this bullshit talk of a TransTasman competition, cross border competitions will never work when self interest dominates.

Separate domestic competitions and then start to discuss cross over games to help with the financials.

…on the separate matter of super rugby competition which this thread meant to be all about, I also agree they should stop trying to work with nzru on their TT competition and just let them do their own thing and we do our own thing domestic competition wise…

Also, i don't think anyone who is pushing for a domestic Australian comp believes it should stop at just 5 teams, in time that can increase, and New Zealand can continue to do their own thing. If New Zealand fans and players get bored playing the same kiwi teams, then maybe NZRU should have considered that before releasing the Aratipu Report.

FFS surely its about time we go our own separate ways and meet for Test rugby, why all this talk of jumping into a TT in 2022 with the NZRU an organisation simply not to be trusted. A domestic competition will be what it is, stop doing deals with people that smile at you as they stick a knife in your back.

It is intriguing to and consider that here we are on page 936, with what we all wanted and knew needed to happen; the death of Super Rugby.
But, still, perversely, and almost like we are scared to leave the cult, or stray from the institutionalised thinking, the conversation is still all about overseas partners and how to start up another or replacement Super Rugby type concept.

I like the idea of a domestic comp. We need to improve rugby as a product to gain any traction among the public. Watching our Super Rugby teams get beaten by the kiwis all season is pretty rubbish. The Brums are the only competitive team yet still no one shows up to watch them. We need to get the bandwaggoners back on board. Some positive media.

Even if you only started with 8 clubs, sort out 3 more from the 5 we have. Have a professional 1st grade squad, a semi pro 2nd grade for development and a womens. They can play double or triple headers to create an event at the venues.

Let it be an open market, like the NRL, however try and attract as much overseas talent as possible to create a high quality competition. Im sure there would be plenty of Currie Cup players willing to come over if lured with residency to escape the loadshedding blackouts and opportunity for their families.

The domestic product needs to stand on its own two feet. If the Wallabies are successful ontop of that, then bonus.

What do people want to watch? NRL and AFL... or a competition where their Australian side is winning. Simple solution, stop playing NZ.

The last two comments should sound familiar

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

‘I’m committed to Australia’: Eddie Jones says he’s had no discussions with Japanese rugby

The Wallabies coach has arrived back in Australia after the Wallabies’ disastrous World Cup campaign.

www.smh.com.au

Eddie Watch continues. Apparently there will be a presser on Monday where this will all be addressed.

EJ (Eddie Jones) (Eddie Jones) still being adamant he's had no contact, and committed to Australia.

Mate, start the fucking merry go round again mate.