Australian Rugby / RA

[HooperPocockSmith]

I don’t mind Phil Waugh, genuinely believe he has his heart in the right place, but so question his appointment because of his ties to the old boys network.

I just worry that being part of the status quo there will be some internal biases he will be unable to overcome.

I would prefer some fresh eyes and fresh ideas. I don't mind whether that comes from someone from international rugby or another sport here in Aus.

 

[HooperPocockSmith]

Yeah, all the reporting seems to suggest the tahs are basically dead in the water and will take anything to keep them afloat right now.

I presume the Tahs went into a fair bit of debt for their new centre of excellence?

 

[LeCheese]

I don’t mind Phil Waugh, genuinely believe he has his heart in the right place, but so question his appointment because of his ties to the old boys network.

His heart might be in the right place, but fuck me, his ideas on how to grow the game (as evidenced in yesterday's AFR piece and the 'festival' of GPS rugby) are so far off the mark and cringeworthy that it isn't funny.

 

[Members Section]

South Australia, Northern Territory and Tasmania all have one vote each as well.

It's also not clear what WA's voting intention around an EGM is, only QLD's and ACT's is stated outright, with the Western Force being listed as having "strong reservations about a move towards a more centralised system".

ah yep i was just doing the maths off the article my bad

 

[Goosestep]

I don’t mind Phil Waugh, genuinely believe he has his heart in the right place, but so question his appointment because of his ties to the old boys network.

His heart might be in the right place, but fuck me, his ideas on how to grow the game (as evidenced in yesterday's AFR piece and the 'festival' of GPS rugby) are so far off the mark and cringeworthy that it isn't funny.

Very out of touch … I always thought Waugh was more down to earth than that ..


funny thing is that “gps” festival would fail too … the reason people go to those games is the atmosphere of being back at the schools … not a neutral stadium .

 

[Braveheart81]

His heart might be in the right place, but fuck me, his ideas on how to grow the game (as evidenced in yesterday's AFR piece and the 'festival' of GPS rugby) are so far off the mark and cringeworthy that it isn't funny.

This stems from a chat before he even started the job though doesn't it?

 

[Bullrush]

Isn’t the whole theory of less teams means whoever is getting a starting gig at the clubs removed will play second fiddle at the consolidated club, therefore building standards? I genuinely don’t think it works like that in 2023, because nobody wants to be a reserve. Also the 3rd choice option was pointing out when does the young talented guy get exposed to high level rugby? If the theory of consolidation works with depth everywhere, when is the 20yr old going to get his experiences? Is he to simply wait till 25yrs? But surely by then he’s deficient in professional rugby experience and surely isn’t going to be happy to sit around that long on 3rd string money to wait his turn. There is just far too many options these days to facilitate that thinking anymore. The young talented guy will head to France, Japan or the NRL (early days). The angus Crichton example is already famous for the Waratahs telling him he will get an opportunity at 22/23 when trying to sign him at 18 and that he would play club rugby. Souths jumped in and said he’d immediately be in contention for selection, plus the extra money on offer. He’s mentioned if Tahs had sold a vision of playing sooner he would of signed

The starter at the Rebels mite be first choice at the Reds. It depends who is the better player.

When do 20yr olds get a chance anywhere now? If their talent and skill are up to it, they could get a chance immediately. Super Rugby teams have positions that they are weak in and are looking for talent. The Blues spent 10-odd years looking for someone to replace Carlos Spencer.

But there are always opportunities. Injuries happen. Retirements and poor form happens.

And the reality is that you will always lose a couple or put your bet on the wring talent. It happens, particularly if you become a country churning out a lot of quality players.

 

[Wilson]

This stems from a chat before he even started the job though doesn't it?

It was around when he started he made those remarks, but it's not as though he was a stranger to the adminstration or the problems facing the game. If that's the best he had it's hard to see why he was hired in the first place.

 

[LeCheese]

It was around when he started he made those remarks, but it's not as though he was a stranger to the adminstration or the problems facing the game. If that's the best he had it's hard to see why he was hired in the first place.

Or, cynically, it's easy to see exactly why he was hired

 

[HooperPocockSmith]

It's funny, Gill McLachlan is also very much the old boy tie-wearing type. But his track record at the AFL is pretty enviable. I guess it's easier to grow the professional game when your grassroots is rock-solid.

 

[Wallaby Man]

Those living in a fairy land about making players wait for opportunity and playing club rugby in the meantime etc. need to remember this interview with Angus Crichton back in 2017

———————
ANGUS Crichton would be one of the hottest prospects in rugby union — not the NRL — had the NSW Waratahs not put a five-year moratorium on him playing at the top level.

The South Sydney forward has revealed how the Waratahs bizarrely told the then 18-year-old he would not play Super Rugby until he was 23, which effectively drove him out of the battling code.

Two-time Australian Schoolboys rugby star said he would not have even entertained a move to the Rabbitohs had the Waratahs not told him he would have to serve a five-year apprenticeship before playing Super Rugby.

Not only have the struggling Waratahs allowed a future star slip through their fingers, Crichton last night backed more young rugby stars to take advantage of the better pathways programs in rugby league


Crichton told The Locker Room podcast how he was stunned by the Waratahs’ plans for him, and wasted no time contacting Souths coach Michael Maguire who he said told him “I want you playing first grade as soon as you’re ready’’.

The Souths backrower told The Daily Telegraph the move was never about the money or taking the fast route to the top.


“I sat there with my dad in a meeting with the Waratahs, I was an 18-year-old who had dreams of playing professional footy,” Crichton said.

“When they told me I wouldn’t be playing first grade, or Super Rugby, until I was 23, it was the polar opposite when I met Madge who told me he’d play me when I was ready. That made it easy.’’

——————————

This is why I’m 2023 consolidating opportunities does not work. Burkey explained it perfectly when people were talking about it on the podcast.

 

[Braveheart81]

It was around when he started he made those remarks, but it's not as though he was a stranger to the adminstration or the problems facing the game. If that's the best he had it's hard to see why he was hired in the first place.

He started in July. The AFR profile which mentions it is from late June. https://www.afr.com/companies/sport...an-to-remake-australian-rugby-20230622-p5diib

The same article talks about financial stability, private equity, Western Sydney and grassroots investment, eligibility across Super Rugby and that competition needing to change.

I'm not trying to defend Waugh and the article by Mark Di Stefano is funny and poking fun at the Festival of GPS Rugby is an obviously funny thing to target but I don't think it is overly reasonable to suggest that this is Waugh's plan to turn rugby around.

It's not like he's come out since the two RWC losses and said that this is what Australian Rugby needs to fix things.

 

[Wilson]

It's funny, Gill McLachlan is also very much the old boy tie-wearing type. But his track record at the AFL is pretty enviable. I guess it's easier to grow the professional game when your grassroots is rock-solid.

I think mostly it's fine to stay the course and hire an establishment candidate when everything is humming along and going well, it just doesn't work so well when it's a dumpster fire and getting worse.

 

[HooperPocockSmith]

I think mostly it's fine to stay the course and hire an establishment candidate when everything is humming along and going well, it just doesn't work so well when it's a dumpster fire and getting worse.

Evidenced by incoming CEO Andrew Dillon's CV. Xavier old boy, Uni Melb grad and lawyer.

 

[Wallaby Man]

The starter at the Rebels mite be first choice at the Reds. It depends who is the better player.

When do 20yr olds get a chance anywhere now? If their talent and skill are up to it, they could get a chance immediately. Super Rugby teams have positions that they are weak in and are looking for talent. The Blues spent 10-odd years looking for someone to replace Carlos Spencer.

But there are always opportunities. Injuries happen. Retirements and poor form happens.

And the reality is that you will always lose a couple or put your bet on the wring talent. It happens, particularly if you become a country churning out a lot of quality players.

But the reserve guy isn’t going to be the old Reds hooker or the current Rebels hooker, because that guy is going to think why would I move to the Reds to sit on the bench. You’re presuming the best players will just fold into the remaining teams and the best young guys will be happy to sit it out and wait their turn. It’s not going to happen. Either the existing first choice will bail overseas because he knows he’s on the outter or the guy potentially coming over will think, I could be on the bench all season. They will just chase the opportunity elsewhere and you end up with the same quality playing reserve because they don’t have better options to choose.

 

[Members Section]

I think mostly it's fine to stay the course and hire an establishment candidate when everything is humming along and going well, it just doesn't work so well when it's a dumpster fire and getting worse.

Gil had a 5 yr apprenticeship knowing only he was going to get the role when he did then over 3 yrs put things in place for Dillon to take over while head hunting & grooming (doesnt sound right but you get what I mean) Laura Kane to take over from Dillon.

We kick Raelene out then hand it over to a banker & expect success?

Maybe we are all to blame for thinking the last 8 years could possibly work

 

[half]

Dru, Hoggy, Quick

Puts on helmet. I keep saying to find backers for private teams is possible.

The A-L on its knees, decided to expand to 14 teams, an put out invitations, Auckland has a number of bids, yes Auckland . If they can find investors so can rugby.

Read link, from Stuff.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

 

[HooperPocockSmith]

On another note, can someone explain to me how the CEO of RUPA can be employed by Stan?

Like, imagine if Clint Newton was the sideline correspondent for Nine/Fox. I would've liked to have seen how that panned out during the media blackout.

 

[Wilson]

He started in July. The AFR profile which mentions it is from late June. https://www.afr.com/companies/sport...an-to-remake-australian-rugby-20230622-p5diib

The same article talks about financial stability, private equity, Western Sydney and grassroots investment, eligibility across Super Rugby and that competition needing to change.

I'm not trying to defend Waugh and the article by Mark Di Stefano is funny and poking fun at the Festival of GPS Rugby is an obviously funny thing to target but I don't think it is overly reasonable to suggest that this is Waugh's plan to turn rugby around.

It's not like he's come out since the two RWC losses and said that this is what Australian Rugby needs to fix things.

It's a period where he would've been interviewing or signing his contract, so I can only assume ideas around where to take the game would've been front and center. It's true he did have more to say than just an old boys day, but that he even thought that was worth mentioning (or something the national body should be organising) makes me question his grasp of the challenge he was facing or the negative perceptions he had to overcome as more of the same shit we'd been dealing with.

I guess you could give him credit for speaking to a specific audience in the AFR, but I still can't fathom why he thought it's the sort of thing RA should even be involved with, it's entirely the job of the NSWRU/Waratahs, any RA involvement would be in setting something like this up nationally, either with interstate schools competition or backing a similar concept in each state. That he can't see how poor the optics are of focusing on NSW based minutiae in the press as he was stepping into the role speaks to the issues he's having getting states on board with centralisation now.

At the end of the day if he didn't want it critisized as part of his plan to save rugby in Australia he simply shouldn't have mentioned it in an interview about his plan to save rugby in Australia.

 

[Tomikin]

Well you could even have the 5 current teams form the basis of the national competition, and create 2 new brands for the Super Rugby tournament. It'd be like in cricket where the Australian squad is largely separate from the big bash and other domestic competitions.

It's not my preference for the long term, but I do think for the next 4 years we probably need to focus on the Wallabies as the number 1 priority, simply because if they perform well in 2025 and 2027 it could quickly save the sport as a major code in this country. Longer term I think the primary focus should be on what sits beneath the Wallabies - rugby needs other competitions and events that attract general interest, regardless of how the Wallabies are doing. International rugby is only going to become more competitive, and it's not realistic that we could always be in the top 2 or 3 teams, even with better structures, player development etc.

40,000 turned up to see the Reds Vs Brumbies Super AU final.. We have a product where if we can create a competition that has uncertainty of outcome and an Australian champion each year, fans will watch it. More fan's more money, more money more teams and players..

Top 2 can go into a champions league if we bother, but we could potentially have a comp that fan's engaged with. I don't particularly think the argument that if we don't play NZ we wont get better really matters..

Start with 6 teams if we can get the Dura, then with the 90 million debt we are going to get a second NSW team and QLD team.