John S
Chilla Wilson (44)
Not this whole shrinking to greatness thing again?
Australian Rugby / RA
- Thread starter Dave Beat
- Start date
Highlander35
Steve Williams (59)
Usual noises from usual types.
Members Section
John Thornett (49)
all I know is that if my kid male or female had a choice to go to the tahs I would advise them maybe try your luck at any other club or overseas
Members Section
John Thornett (49)
Looks like that clown Hoiles has joined g&gr
HooperPocockSmith
Bill Watson (15)
Seems like I've upset a few people. So, I'll change the subject somewhat. I'm open to whatever suggestions improve the quality and interest of rugby in this country. If that means a domestic comp, I'm all for it. I'm just cynical as to how good the standard would be with the talent that we currently have. I do think some kind of crossover comp is the way forward.
If we were to run a Super Rugby AU comp with the current five teams plus the Drua. Would it be a stupid suggestion to run a home and away season Feb-May, followed by Super Rugby Pacific with 2-3 Aussie sides? Whether you go with the highest-ranked sides from the Super AU season or a combination of the form players of the earlier comp. Under the centralised model, you could have your 40 or so centralised players in these teams supplemented by the remaining best players. That way, you're playing the Kiwi teams with your better players, increasing the number of high-quality games for your test players and providing a clearer pathway to higher honours.
Anyway, just trying to spitball some suggestions.
EDIT - I'd like to stress I believe we have plenty of talent in this country, but I don't think we have the money to retain it. So my reference is with respect to the talent we can currently afford.
If we were to run a Super Rugby AU comp with the current five teams plus the Drua. Would it be a stupid suggestion to run a home and away season Feb-May, followed by Super Rugby Pacific with 2-3 Aussie sides? Whether you go with the highest-ranked sides from the Super AU season or a combination of the form players of the earlier comp. Under the centralised model, you could have your 40 or so centralised players in these teams supplemented by the remaining best players. That way, you're playing the Kiwi teams with your better players, increasing the number of high-quality games for your test players and providing a clearer pathway to higher honours.
Anyway, just trying to spitball some suggestions.
EDIT - I'd like to stress I believe we have plenty of talent in this country, but I don't think we have the money to retain it. So my reference is with respect to the talent we can currently afford.
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Members Section
John Thornett (49)
yes that would be a stupid suggestion
No.9
Frank Nicholson (4)
Comments like this are a little unnecessary and don’t drive the conversation forward.
HooperPocockSmith
Bill Watson (15)
Much the same as this. Your pontification does nothing to help. RA may as well hire Members Section as CEO since it seems he is all-knowing.
Members Section
John Thornett (49)
I know your narrow minded ‘suggestion’ might make your terrible organisation more competitive with the blues while at the same time loosing more money from the television broadcasts with less content any money or support from 2 state governments when yours supports zero. I know you want to send even more young talent to rl because you’ll have 2 less lists for them to play at & spending any money you can to get them back 2 yrs later then sending any depth you have to France & Japan. You want to
Completely get rid of 2 academy’s one that is producing multiple wallabies & another that was before you completely shafted them 6 years ago then begged them to comeback when you were on your knees with no money, that is only just starting to show some signs of life again.
no one cares about Super Rugby, no one cares about the nz sides
go back to your ignorant ivory town in Coogee & complain to your mates that sit around & agree with each other that are scared of Anzac bridge
dru
David Wilson (68)
Firstly, there is a history of discussion on this through what became known as the thread that would not die. You turn up for two seconds and hash out the same ill-considered twaddle. [Edit: there is a reason the thread was locked.] 2s on a forum does not provide you a status of guru or whatever your actual presumption is.
More to the point, cutting as indicated is actually cutting two states worth of fans and rugby development. Trying to cut Force was an utter fail because of the the utter determination and drive from the fan base. This is something rugby in Australia should highly value, though you know what they say about common sense. And it led to another competition that would have been fully funded and in competition with RA - until they re-negged and brought back the Force. Gutting the Force apparently being a sufficient "success" at that point.
Next, the reason, or one of the main reasons we struggle with income is because Super Rugby offers too little content to the broadcasters to be able to attach any reasonable value. You just reduced that a further 40%. Wow. What a financial plan.
Not last, but something many consider fundamental - you just took a national sport and locked it in as the East-Coast Elites that the RA is frequently castigated for. If you want a national sport it needs representation in the City that is likely to become our largest, and it needs to be national, ie cross the Nullabor, ffs.
The result is the shrinking-to-greatness accelerator on the down-trend that has been the purvey of twits who recommend shit like this. We already can't find opportunity for our talent, that opportunity doesn't drop by 40% but is a death nell as we hit a phase transition to obliteration.
Now, before we attempt to discuss any more of this myopic regurgitation of unmitigated brain-farts, this forcing of fan die-back to the rusted on, and then taking a sand-blaster to that rust, show some respect to the forum and start your research by looking back through what has been said before. The thread that would not die: (from the start please) https://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/where-to-for-super-rugby.17402/
Right now, on the back of the Wallabies hitting rock bottom and far from looking for an exit, picking up spades - it is piss poor timing to re-initiate this well-troden drivel.
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Highlander35
Steve Williams (59)
Where to for Super Rugby?
After 2 weeks of the 2017 super rugby season, is it time for a major revamp? It seems clear that for Foxtel and similar pay TV operators, the super rugby provides multiple hours of content each weekend. (Yesterday's marathon went for something like 17 hours of rugby). Rugby authorities also...
www.greenandgoldrugby.com
I miss this thread.
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Agreed. Though you forgot schools in that discussion on how the game isn't aligned; I won't bore everyone again with how exactly they are affecting things.
In terms of the rest of it - speaking from a Sydney pov:
No such thing. I know what you mean, but let's label that "Premier Rugby" and move on.
The use of the term "grassroots" to represent SRU is part of the mystical Fantasy Land in which some Sydney Premier Rugby Clubs exist.
They think they should be the professional arm of the game, but still want to run 7 teams doing it, with rumours of an 8th, despite half their clubs struggling to do that.
They want to scream that they're "grassroots", then take actions like warehousing Colts and insulting Subbies clubs, actively preventing players from taking the field.
They want handouts, while charging some of these kids $500 for a pair of shorts and socks, and 10 minutes every other week for a dream of playing Grade that will never happen.
This particular cadre of clubs are doing more to harm their own competition, and others around it, than almost everyone else combined.
How a few amateurs hold the SRU Board to ransom reminds me of a Turkish proverb: "The forest was shrinking but the trees kept voting for the Axe, for the Axe was clever and convinced the trees that because his handle was made of wood, he was one of them."
I would say that description of certain clubs - and rugby people in general - is apt. There is a lot of gatekeeping; a lot of suspicion, and a lot of circling the wagons. Subbies isn't immune from this mentality, but the organisation have been very accomodating in trying to build relationships with Premier Rugby in Sydney for the greater good.
When some clubs couldn't muster Colts, Premier Colts 4 sides were introduced to stabilise the competition. The reward?
Nothing. Just more blather from Premier Rugby clubs about Subbies being "mickey mouse rugby" and how it isn't worthy anyone's time. Once they've got a player's money, they don't care.
________________________________
Your key point about separation is the main thing - none of these things are aligned, from Juniors through Schools to Seniors. Everyone is left to build their own relationships and then guard them fiercely to prevent anyone else stealing their hard work. And when individuals create relationships, they invariably fail as people move on.
It could be a fairly easy fix. Cheap, too.
We have contact data for every registered player in Australia. Why not use it to help clubs and schools connect? Why let player numbers simply disappear into a black hole?
The advice I've been given to connect my club to the local rugby schools: is to keep hassling overworked teachers who probably don't have time to run a rugby program anyway. They get about the same level of help from NSWRU as we do in general terms.
The top end of the sport needs to look at rugby league and the money they invest in their junior systems, and how they align all elements. It'll pay dividends in the long term that a few bandaids at pro level can't heal.
dru
David Wilson (68)
Thankyou Highlander. I've corrected my thread reference.
Highlander35
Steve Williams (59)
dru
David Wilson (68)
Yeah, look new-comers are fabulous additions and G&GR should be encouraged, including by myself. It's just a highly charged emotional time with rugby right now. I've been trying to ignore many posts at the moment but lost it this morning. Wouldn't surprise if that post meets the mod-hammer. Probably deserve it.
Chill pill time.
Wallaby Man
Nev Cottrell (35)
Think you and I are very much on the same page
HooperPocockSmith
Bill Watson (15)
Okay. My apologies, gents. I know you probably don't believe me, but I am being sincere. I, too, am overcome with despair and am at a bit of a loss of what to do.
I didn't realise (showing my naivety) how charged and historical this debate has been on here. I guess I've fallen into the trap of looking at the quality of some of our Super Rugby sides over the last few years and assuming that cutting a couple of teams will retain the meat and trim the fat.
I didn't realise (showing my naivety) how charged and historical this debate has been on here. I guess I've fallen into the trap of looking at the quality of some of our Super Rugby sides over the last few years and assuming that cutting a couple of teams will retain the meat and trim the fat.
Derpus
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Careful, thought out and insightful observations and proposed solutions are so fucking boring Pfitzy. It's not drastic enough. Where is the pizzaz? Where is 'Rugby - the Australian way'?
I just can't see how any of this will help us.
half
Dick Tooth (41)
I no longer post much, as my brain tells me, major structural changes needed to be made and each year we slip a little more, and I now believe we have reached a point of no return and a new survival plan is needed because once the aging old boy networks fade, rugby will loose the GPS schools, and its already lost the junior programs a while ago.
Once the Old Boy networks fade corporate support will also start to fall.
Without trying to go over old ground, I have always been of the opinion Rugby needed to make long term structural changes in the late 90's to early 0000’s when Rugby had cash, corporate support, good TV ratings and decent crowds.
Maybe the mods could open up the old thread, with an addition words to, Where To Super Rugby & Australian Rugby.
Simply to emphasise how the world has changed, and how our thinking is clouded in the past. Last week the Matilda's announced a 3 game Olympic qualifier, between Australia, Iran, Philippines and Twain, tickets for all three matches sold out in under an hour at Perth Stadium, so the Saturday game was moved to Optus oval. Thats women's soccer against Asian teams, and will get 100K +, FMD .
Where is our womens competition to counter, Football, AFL, League, Netball & Basketball. Women make decision today.
The Red Baron
Chilla Wilson (44)
Include it as one of your talking points for when you compare notes with beer on the hill.