KOB1987
John Eales (66)
Don’t see the need for the name calling, I said as much in my last sentence. My criticism is of all the rep teams beneath this system, which are now by and large obsolete.
Australian Rugby / RA
- Thread starter Dave Beat
- Start date
Jimmy_Crouch
Peter Johnson (47)
Fair, agreed and I apologise for the name calling.
You have gone for the most basic of any response in this thread. Things have changed so they must be worse and RA stuff this up.
Just because things are different doesn't mean they are worse. There are hundreds of more kids playing in higher stand competitions than in the past. Much greater number of opportunities for kids to be recognised outside the 'traditional' pathway. Just because you struggle to work it out doesn't make it bad.
Tomthumb
Peter Fenwicke (45)
The deterioration of the game in this country to the point where we are arguably the worst Tier 1 nation in the World would tend to suggest maybe it is worse
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
I didnt ever suggest the approach to the selection of the proper representative team was wrong, and I understand it as I have kids in the system. Many don’t, so I was attempting to explain it. Ok so some select kids get some bragging rights and get to play a couple of extra games in their lifetime, and I don’t even have any objection to that, I’m just pointing out that the pathway to what they call the Australian Schoolboys is now obsolete. Getting more kids playing the game outside the traditional school systems would be a better outcome.
John S
Peter Fenwicke (45)
That would be a good start. For example, trying to find a Rugby Minis program on the south coast is impossible. RA have made the thing so hard to find! I'm resigned to the fact my young fella is probably going to have to wait until he's around 8-9 to play Juniors, when there are multiple options for him for soccer, AFL, and I think league at his age range.
Granted, some of that lies with the club not having volunteers to run it
Wallaby Man
Nev Cottrell (35)
This again is one of the issues. RA don’t run the junior game here, the federated model means that the state unions run the junior programs or more complicated the SRU runs it in Sydney for some clubs and not for others depending on what comp they are in. It’s a mess. RA could do something but they provide substantial grants to all the state unions to do so, threatening to remove the money would cause an all out war at state level and with the potential voting blocks that the current system allows then we could get petty gridlock or ousting of the current RA board. It’s a terrible model we have to play with.
Rob42
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
It's a great setup for NSW Rugby. They might have all the responsibility for junior development etc, but when it fails, everyone blames Rugby Australia. NSW Rugby is often invisible.
I'd suggest that, overall, the teams that RA has the greatest direct control over - 7s, U20s, Australia A - have performed their role the best. It's the state/franchise responsibilities that are falling over, with the predictable results for the Wallabies.
LeCheese
Greg Davis (50)
This is factually incorrect - they've had to combine U15/16 (as well as U17/18) comps, but there are several options
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
So either my mate or I are liars?
I might have the detail wrong, but what he told me is that his son had to play in Brisbane because there was no competition here for him. He might have fallen in between the cracks, too old for one comp, too young for the other.
LeCheese
Greg Davis (50)
All I'm saying is that your statement is incorrect.
There are numerous clubs from GC and surrounds fielding teams from U6 through U18 and Opens. Not every club is fielding a team in every age group, but it would appear there are several options closer than BNE.
All info here - I'm basing the above off previous and upcoming fixtures: https://www.gcdru.com.au/
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
No, my statement is a verbatim quote. Maybe my mate is a dunce, or a liar, but I don't think so. As I said, maybe his son fell between the age groups. This is my last comment on this matter.
LeCheese
Greg Davis (50)
Chill out dude.... You made a comment and I'm suggesting that there's very good evidence to believe otherwise - it's not an attack on you or your mate.
Maybe share the GCDRU link with your mate and hopefully his son can get some local game time next season.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
Well there is Bond Uni for premier team of course, but plenty of clubs there as well.
Micheal
Alan Cameron (40)
A thought -- in podcasts and articles over the last year, I've read how Ireland completely transformed their rugby program and national results over a number of years by embracing and investing in it's private school system.
Since hearing this, it's bounced around my head a lot.
I went to a Sydney GPS school (graduating in 2012) and I'm generally pretty frustrated by the private school system in Sydney and the type of people that it produces.
I've likewise always hated the private schoolboy culture and classism that permeates Australian rugby union, and I used to be a firm believer that the game had to move beyond private schools in order to succeed, grow and develop. I am literally physically embarrassed when attending Shute Shield games, and geriatrics at Waratahs games make me want to cry.
However, it seems that these days that rugby union is facing existential threats in these schools themselves, as parents look towards soccer (a safer sport) and the AFL continues to invest within programs inside these schools.
If this continues, and if rugby union loses it's place in these schools, what else does it have remaining?
So, I suppose I'd evoke some devils advocate thinking here and pose a question -- should Rugby Australia double down on investment, partnerships and programs within the private schools of our capital cities?
Some thoughts --
[1] We talk a lot about rugby league stealing union players out of highschool, but the reality of the situation is often that these players were poached from rugby league clubs whilst in highschool by way of scholarships to these schools. In this manner, and if this 'poaching' can be imbued, it'd allow rugby union to compete with league in terms of professional recruitment in the younger age groups.
[2] The financial situation of some of these schools absolutely dwarfs our rugby administrators. For instance, Shore School purchased Graythwaite in 2013 for ~$40 million without financing. They just had that cash sitting around, likely because they own an insane amount of property in North Sydney, and their student fees exceed $50 million per year. For reference, RA had a profit of $8M in 2022, and the NSWRU had a profit of $200K for the same year.
The balance sheets and P&Ls of individual schools in this country likely dwarf even Rugby Australias.
For all the talk of grassroots funding, we have a very strong grassroots system that would be self-funded (to an extent not possible by RA) if properly incentivised.
E.g. if RA could work with a broadcast partner to secure a deal to televise school rugby competitions, and then some sort of national Champions Cup style competition at the end of the season, it'd create an arms race within these systems (beyond that which already exists), causing insane levels of investment that would not be possible anywhere else.
Since hearing this, it's bounced around my head a lot.
I went to a Sydney GPS school (graduating in 2012) and I'm generally pretty frustrated by the private school system in Sydney and the type of people that it produces.
I've likewise always hated the private schoolboy culture and classism that permeates Australian rugby union, and I used to be a firm believer that the game had to move beyond private schools in order to succeed, grow and develop. I am literally physically embarrassed when attending Shute Shield games, and geriatrics at Waratahs games make me want to cry.
However, it seems that these days that rugby union is facing existential threats in these schools themselves, as parents look towards soccer (a safer sport) and the AFL continues to invest within programs inside these schools.
If this continues, and if rugby union loses it's place in these schools, what else does it have remaining?
So, I suppose I'd evoke some devils advocate thinking here and pose a question -- should Rugby Australia double down on investment, partnerships and programs within the private schools of our capital cities?
Some thoughts --
[1] We talk a lot about rugby league stealing union players out of highschool, but the reality of the situation is often that these players were poached from rugby league clubs whilst in highschool by way of scholarships to these schools. In this manner, and if this 'poaching' can be imbued, it'd allow rugby union to compete with league in terms of professional recruitment in the younger age groups.
[2] The financial situation of some of these schools absolutely dwarfs our rugby administrators. For instance, Shore School purchased Graythwaite in 2013 for ~$40 million without financing. They just had that cash sitting around, likely because they own an insane amount of property in North Sydney, and their student fees exceed $50 million per year. For reference, RA had a profit of $8M in 2022, and the NSWRU had a profit of $200K for the same year.
The balance sheets and P&Ls of individual schools in this country likely dwarf even Rugby Australias.
For all the talk of grassroots funding, we have a very strong grassroots system that would be self-funded (to an extent not possible by RA) if properly incentivised.
E.g. if RA could work with a broadcast partner to secure a deal to televise school rugby competitions, and then some sort of national Champions Cup style competition at the end of the season, it'd create an arms race within these systems (beyond that which already exists), causing insane levels of investment that would not be possible anywhere else.
SouthernX
John Thornett (49)
Just to clarify on the poaching union players for league. Some NRL clubs are actually picking up the tuition of some prospects…. Locking them into deals before and then sending them to rugby union nurseries
The optics is we looking like we losing players to rugby league - but they were never our players to begin with.
NRL teams seeing the benefits of sending a player to Nudgee college as opposed to him going to Mabel Park HS
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
And Brad Fittler sending his kid to Scots, the assumption is he's going straight to the Roosters in 2025. However, there are a couple of case studies in this, Ron Giteau's son for one, Steve Rogers' another. The odd one might stick, harder in today's world though.
The Ghost of Raelene
David Codey (61)
I think we can all feel Robs pain of having to tolerate politicians for a day.
- Could just be having to be exclusively with Nic White.