Australian Rugby / RA

[Derpus]

Yeah now that i think about it the thing what i said is dumbo

 

[RedsHappy]

It wasn't a strategy, it was an act of desperation. With the benefit of hindsight (a very common attribute of most critics), what was the alternative? Sack him? Or just let him continue hurtling down the pike without any controls?

Oh, well, let's not be too pedantic. Whatever you call it, it was one of RA's/RC's most crucial priorities once the latter commenced her role in early 2018 - attempt to prepare a Wallaby team to win a RWC, or at least get very near to doing so. They certainly needed what is normally referred to as a strategy for doing that.

Who was to be HC was the key component, obviously. They could have: just kept MC with no added senior oversight, sacked MC and replaced him, or tried the 'much added oversight model' of Johnson and O'Connor as the oversighters. They chose the latter option.

The most telling of O'Connor's many observations (the one about all the dropped balls in training that carried into actual games is 'interesting') is perhaps how this model badly failed and that it became clear that it was, as he says, bound to end in tears and so it did, especially for we Wallaby fans last November.

Then he valiantly lists a number of positives to come:

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"With new Wallabies coach Dave Rennie starting next month and a high turnover of players at the top level, O’Connor believes Australia could be on the cusp of a golden era.​

​

“We’ve got some real young genuine talent and I’d be very optimistic about our chances for the next World Cup,” he said. “We’ve got some really good young players coming through - potentially world-class players - and we didn’t have enough of them over the last decade.​

​

“I think we are really on the cusp of another really good era in Australia. We’re getting good coaches in Dan McKellar and Brad Thorn coming on. We’ve brought some good coaches to Australia, the rule changes are good for the game too. There’s a lot of positives.”​

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[formerflanker]

Yeah now that i think about it the thing what i said is dumbo

Rule 1 of G&GR fight club - never apologise.

 

[Derpus]

Shoulda just sacked Cheika after the England tour.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

This seven man committee for rugby World Cup bid - Elizabeth Gaines (ceo of fmg) significant - thawing of relationship between twiggy and RA indeed...this can only be a good thing and hopefully continuing to work more closely together.

Can only hope...

 

[Quick Hands]

It wasn't a strategy, it was an act of desperation. With the benefit of hindsight (a very common attribute of most critics), what was the alternative? Sack him? Or just let him continue hurtling down the pike without any controls?

Although Cheika largely continued to hurtle out of control anyway. Remember the scenes at the embassy in Tokyo where Morgan Turinui had to separate Cheika and Castle in front of the assembled diplomats and dignitaries?

 

[Quick Hands]

You cant just sack a contracted bloke unless he has done something like breach his contravt. Otherwise you habe to pay out his contract to get rid of him.

Sacking him then would have been a poor option. Not only would we have had to pay him out but appointing the next coach in those circumstances puts the new coach in the strongest negotiating position and leaves RA in a poor position.

RWC 2019 results were years in the making and it's hard to see changing the coach a few months out would have achieved significant improvement.

 

[Quick Hands]

Shoulda just sacked Cheika after the England tour.

The time to move him on was then or certainly after the 2017 EOYT when we were flogged by England and Scotland.

 

[KOB1987]

I’m reading Eddie’s book and I’m just up to the 2016 tour by England, but they’ve only just landed in the country. EJ (Eddie Jones) said that he knew the Wallabies would be on a bit of a low after losing in the RWC final, and in contrast he had a whole new team and the strategy was to be super physical and monster us up front.

Re the dropped balls thing that MOC refers to, is that something Cheika should be held accountable for or is that the general lack of skills development that era of players had that many people on here allude to? Probably that, combined with a confusing game plan, so a bit of both I guess. Generally speaking it shouldn’t be up to the national coach to teach players to catch and pass..

 

[I like to watch]

Generally speaking, it’s up to the coach to implement a plan HIS players can execute.

he had plenty of lead in time, he just chose to go “all in” on something that clearly wasn’t working.

thats the problem with crash or crash thru types.
when they crash, there’s plenty of collateral damage.

 

[wamberal]

Generally speaking it shouldn’t be up to the national coach to teach players to catch and pass..

If he picks players who cannot catch and pass, more fool him. However, as much as I applauded the appointment of Mick Byrne to the coaching set-up, I wonder what his influence meant in real terms? One would think that he would definitely be able to improve our kicking ability, and yet Folau never managed it, and Foley's kicking from the spot deteriorated markedly in latter years.

 

[KOB1987]

If he picks players who cannot catch and pass, more fool him. However, as much as I applauded the appointment of Mick Byrne to the coaching set-up, I wonder what his influence meant in real terms? One would think that he would definitely be able to improve our kicking ability, and yet Folau never managed it, and Foley's kicking from the spot deteriorated markedly in latter years.

I think the issue inferred is that he did pick the players who could catch and pass the best. Agree re Mick the Kick - what a waste of space he turned out to be.

 

[Derpus]

I’m reading Eddie’s book and I’m just up to the 2016 tour by England, but they’ve only just landed in the country. EJ (Eddie Jones) said that he knew the Wallabies would be on a bit of a low after losing in the RWC final, and in contrast he had a whole new team and the strategy was to be super physical and monster us up front.

Re the dropped balls thing that MOC refers to, is that something Cheika should be held accountable or is that the general lack of skills development that era of players had that many people on here allude to? Probably that, combined with a confusing game plan, so a bit of both I guess. Generally speaking it shouldn’t be up to the national coach to teach players to catch and pass..

100%. Very few of the better players of the last generation had much interest in self improvement. We've also had some shitty coaching setups for the last 5 years.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Byrne was highly regarded here in NZ & numerous players credited him with improving various areas of their game e.g. JSav was once crap under the high ball but did a lot of extra work with Byrne that didn't exactly make him Folau-esque but did make him a lot less crap. Kicking-wise I seem to recall Dan Carter saying that working with Byrne improved both his range & accuracy in all forms of kicking. When he went back to Australia the consensus was that NZ's loss was definitely your gain. A poor workman blames his tools but you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

 

[Quick Hands]

I’m reading Eddie’s book and I’m just up to the 2016 tour by England, but they’ve only just landed in the country. EJ (Eddie Jones) said that he knew the Wallabies would be on a bit of a low after losing in the RWC final, and in contrast he had a whole new team and the strategy was to be super physical and monster us up front.

Re the dropped balls thing that MOC refers to, is that something Cheika should be held accountable or is that the general lack of skills development that era of players had that many people on here allude to? Probably that, combined with a confusing game plan, so a bit of both I guess. Generally speaking it shouldn’t be up to the national coach to teach players to catch and pass..

I think that the idea that pro coaches shouldn't have to teach or refine basic skills is wrong. The best coaches at the highest level work on them all the time.

 

[KOB1987]

I think the old rule of thumb is that to win a World Cup you have to have 5 world class players in the team. The only truly world class player we had got sacked prior to the event, Hooper arguably could have made a World XV. That’s it. Beale and Pocock could have at other times in their career but certainly not in 2019.

Point being that our best players were sub par, and the depth below our best players was non existent as well. Speak to any test player and they will all tell you it’s not the physicality, but the speed of the game that finds most people out. Notwithstanding that I agree with ILTW above that the game plan should be able to be executed, it also needs to be one that is capable of catching out international sides. I don’t disagree that Cheika overcomplicated the game plan, but the players need to shoulder some of the responsibility as well.

 

[qwerty51]

Um... Kerevi.

 

[Adam84]

Kerevi, AAA and Sio are all world class and would find a spot in any other test team IMO

 

[Sully]

Kuridrani is nearly there too.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I’m reading Eddie’s book and I’m just up to the 2016 tour by England, but they’ve only just landed in the country. EJ (Eddie Jones) said that he knew the Wallabies would be on a bit of a low after losing in the RWC final, and in contrast he had a whole new team and the strategy was to be super physical and monster us up front.

Re the dropped balls thing that MOC refers to, is that something Cheika should be held accountable or is that the general lack of skills development that era of players had that many people on here allude to? Probably that, combined with a confusing game plan, so a bit of both I guess. Generally speaking it shouldn’t be up to the national coach to teach players to catch and pass..

But if the players' hearts aren't in it, KOB, there might have been a 'who cares?' attitude with the coach right at the centre of the malcontent.