Australian Rugby / RA

[drewprint]

its been reported that within a couple of hours of receiving the letter, the chair agreed to meet to discuss their concerns, and suggested it would best be accomplished without it being aired publicly.

they chose not to respond to the invitation, and to leak it to the press.

nothing at all courageous about that.

Yep that’s what particularly irks me. It’s cowardly, and shows that it was never just about being let into the tent to provide advice on change. And it appears to have been done in an underhand way too - look at how Lynagh has retracted his name from it.

 

[Ignoto]

If the players want to play big boy games, perhaps RA should put all non performing players on PIP's? If I constantly fail at my job, I don't get to demand more cash, I get managed out of the business.

 

[Braveheart81]

That’s a bit fucking rich.

players want accountability?

if they were paid on results, the guy in the car park would out earn them..

The guy in the car park has to give some credit for his performance to the players. If it wasn't for them, there wouldn't be a steady flow of people heading to the car park whilst the match is still finishing. Smoothing that peak out is vital for optimal car park performance.

 

[fatprop]

Sniff, sniff, sniff Is that a super league scenario im smelling??

Who would bank roll it, we are quite shit at the moment

 

[rugboy]

If the players want to play big boy games, perhaps RA should put all non performing players on PIP's? If I constantly fail at my job, I don't get to demand more cash, I get managed out of the business.

Assume RA would give said players the opportunity to give themselves their own self based performance rating to see if they reach their targets for this extra cash....

 

[wamberal]

Thats the problem with clubs and why i have zero fucken interest in them, like everyone else who didnt go to a GPS school.

Maybe just a teensy weensy exaggeration there? You can speak for yourself, but you cannot speak for "everyone else who didn't go to a GPS school".

 

[Derpus]

Maybe just a teensy weensy exaggeration there? You can speak for yourself, but you cannot speak for "everyone else who didn't go to a GPS school".

Fair. I suspect i am not far from the mark though.

 

[Micheal]

Maybe just a teensy weensy exaggeration there? You can speak for yourself, but you cannot speak for "everyone else who didn't go to a GPS school".

It's definitely an exaggeration, but I'm 25 and my close circle of friends is the only circle that I know that gives any fucks about Rugby Union in our age group. A lot of other close circles have drifted from Union to League in the last 5 or so years.

Out of the 10 or so of us that get together for Wallabies games, I'd say 80% play Subbies and are actively involved in the game.

We're based in Sydney, and 0% give a single fuck about the Shute Shield. I'd say most of us actually have negative feelings towards it.

I know this is anecdotal and not worth much, but Rugby in Australia is a lot more than Premier clubs in QLD and NSW. Even within Sydney and Brisbane, Rugby is a lot more than those clubs.

 

[wamberal]

I know this is anecdotal and not worth much, but Rugby in Australia is a lot more than Premier clubs in QLD and NSW. Even within Sydney and Brisbane, Rugby is a lot more than those clubs.

One would hope that rugby is a lot more than just the Shute Shield. On the other hand, it would take the most febrile imagination to envisage the state of the game today had it not been for the huge number of talented players that have been churned out from the Shute Shield (and the Brisbane equivalent) over the years.


We would be on a par with hockey. At best.

 

[Derpus]

One would hope that rugby is a lot more than just the Shute Shield. On the other hand, it would take the most febrile imagination to envisage the state of the game today had it not been for the huge number of talented players that have been churned out from the Shute Shield (and the Brisbane equivalent) over the years.


We would be on a par with hockey. At best.

You can acknowledge its past importance without having to contend its the future.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

One would hope that rugby is a lot more than just the Shute Shield. On the other hand, it would take the most febrile imagination to envisage the state of the game today had it not been for the huge number of talented players that have been churned out from the Shute Shield (and the Brisbane equivalent) over the years.


We would be on a par with hockey. At best.

They certainly have served and probably should again a vital purpose in terms of talent development and identification. And they should be considered in the grand scheme of things. What irks me is the belief of some that the game only revolves around these clubs forgetting the subbies and junior clubs that feed them.

They're a talent aggregator. And the system should be developed to continue that with junior clubs/schools being directly aligned with them beyond just rep schedules. But those who yell the loudest from that level need to recognise that without the junior/school clubs in particular drawing kids in and doing a lot of the initial basics with them they wouldn't exist.

 

[Rebels3]

One would hope that rugby is a lot more than just the Shute Shield. On the other hand, it would take the most febrile imagination to envisage the state of the game today had it not been for the huge number of talented players that have been churned out from the Shute Shield (and the Brisbane equivalent) over the years.


We would be on a par with hockey. At best.

If these clubs didn’t exist another would be the beneficiary of the talent as they would move within the pecking order to the highest level below super rugby. They do a fantastic job, but so would of someone else if they were the beneficiaries of the same resources, players etc. been attracted to them. This is part of the perception war that SS constantly loses with those outside their bubble.

I have a long held belief that there is actually 3 factions in Aus rugby, there is 1) the pro faction, 2) the ‘elite amateur’ faction and then 3) the rest.

Faction 1 and 2 have a distaste for each other specifically in NSW (less so in QLD), 1 and 3 actually get along okay with each other however they both understand things need to improve. 2 and 3 have things in common however there isn’t much trust between each other. Whoever correctly engages 3) the rest correctly will solve a lot of the perception issues that are going on. Currently RA are doing that better than the elite amateur side.

 

[Micheal]

They're a talent aggregator.

This.

One would hope that rugby is a lot more than just the Shute Shield. On the other hand, it would take the most febrile imagination to envisage the state of the game today had it not been for the huge number of talented players that have been churned out from the Shute Shield (and the Brisbane equivalent) over the years.

This perspective is something that confuses me. I really don't believe that they contribute much meaningful "development" in 2020.

Let's look at Ned Hanigan as an example, who I've heard to be touted as a product of Randwick.

He lived in the country until 12 - supposedly never having played rugby - at which stage he started attending Joeys. He played there for 6 years until 2013. He also played in the Australian Schoolboys side that year.

He played Randwick colts and NSW u20s in 2014.

In 2015, he played for the NSW Country Eagles and started training with the Waratahs. He also played for Aus u20s.

He started playing with the Waratahs in 2016.

Let's break his Rugby life down:

• 6 years in the Joeys program (2008-2013)
• 2 years in the Randwick program (2014-2015)
• 2 years in the NSW u20s program (2014-2015)
• 1 year in the Aus u20s program (2015)
• 2+ years in the NSW Country Eagles program (2015 onwards)
• 5+ years in the Waratahs program (2015 onwards)

In today's world, the Shute Shield is simply a stepping stone. It's not the pathway. Players who are destined for higher honours, e.g. Super or Wallabies contracts, are on that trajectory anyway. Most players spend only a few years in the Shute Shield.

If it was such a great development pathway, we'd see more 26 or 27 year old Shute Shield veterans getting Super Rugby contracts. But they thing is - they don't. They don't develop meaningfully. If you're spending 5+ years in the Shute Shield, theres a 98% chance that you aren't going to make it to the next level.

If an individual plays 2-4 seasons for a Shute Shield club, can we really attribute their development to that club? What about the 6+ years they played in highschool? What about the years in state / national u18s and u20s programs? What about NRC and Super rugby development environments?

 

[John S]

My understanding is that KPMG have completed their work but will only sign off with a going concern qualification. As both Directors and Auditors must affirm that their is reasonable expectation that all debts and liabilities will be satisfied for a period of 12 months from the date of signing of the accounts. Do not suffer under any illusion that the Directors are just as unlikely to approve the accounts without either a broadcast deal or a pay cut deal with the players as are KPMG. It’s amazing how personal liability focuses the mind.

When your auditors won’t sign off your accounts without a going concern qualification I rate your chances of survival less than 10% at best. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

As an accountant, a lot of us in the profession are putting notes in financials about the impact of COVID-19 on future years trading etc - it's prudent. It's not as is RA is all on its own here

 

[wamberal]

This perspective is something that confuses me. I really don't believe that they contribute much meaningful "development" in 2020.

Maybe you are a bit confused; the phrase I used was "over the years", and that is what I meant. Not just 2020.

In today's world, the Shute Shield is simply a stepping stone. It's not the pathway. Players who are destined for higher honours, e.g. Super or Wallabies contracts, are on that trajectory anyway. Most players spend only a few years in the Shute Shield.


If it was such a great development pathway, we'd see more 26 or 27 year old Shute Shield veterans getting Super Rugby contracts. But they thing is - they don't. They don't develop meaningfully. If you're spending 5+ years in the Shute Shield, theres a 98% chance that you aren't going to make it to the next level.

If the choice is between having something like a Shute Shield competition (even one in which "most players spend only a few years") or not having one, are you seriously saying that we would be better off without one? There are players who come into a club side, unheralded, and emerge with pro contracts sooner or later.

It might not be "a great development pathway", but it is a lot better than nothing. Apart from anything else it provides a vehicle for people who love the game to either play it, watch it, or even sponsor it. All this support is worth something, surely? Again, how on earth would we be better off without it?


When the Super Rugby season finishes, a number of the players come back to club rugby. That is worth something, I would have thought.

 

[Dan54]

Fair. I suspect i am not far from the mark though.

Actually I do have to say none of my mates went to a GPS school, and none of them have ever said it to me.

 

[wamberal]

If these clubs didn’t exist another would be the beneficiary of the talent as they would move within the pecking order to the highest level below super rugby. They do a fantastic job, but so would of someone else if they were the beneficiaries of the same resources, players etc. been attracted to them. This is part of the perception war that SS constantly loses with those outside their bubble.

I have a long held belief that there is actually 3 factions in Aus rugby, there is 1) the pro faction, 2) the ‘elite amateur’ faction and then 3) the rest.

Faction 1 and 2 have a distaste for each other specifically in NSW (less so in QLD), 1 and 3 actually get along okay with each other however they both understand things need to improve. 2 and 3 have things in common however there isn’t much trust between each other. Whoever correctly engages 3) the rest correctly will solve a lot of the perception issues that are going on. Currently RA are doing that better than the elite amateur side.

I am sorry, I have not got the foggiest idea what you are saying, with the best will in the world. Maybe you can help me to understand. Is my club, Eastwood, part of the "elite amateur" faction? AFAIK, our first graders get paid - not much, but they are certainly not lilywhites.


If clubs like Eastwood, West Harbour, Southern Districts and all the rest did not exist, all their volunteers, supporters, sponsors, and of course the loyal lower graders and so on just vanished from the face of the earth, who on earth would replace them?


The Shute Shield has tried over the years to admit new clubs, there have been lots of attempts, and not many successes.


Are you saying that if the SS disappeared it would not be missed?

 

[lincoln]

Farr-Jones, a shire boy who went to Newington and then joined that well-known district club, Sydney University. Similar to Waugh, played for Narrabeen Juniors before chooffing off to Shore and ending up at Sydney University Football Club.

FFS they both lived on-campus - do you expect them to buy cars and commute to Port Hacking (as it then was) and Narrabeen rather than literally walk 4 minutes to training?
NFJ, fresh from New 2nds no less, joined SU the year after they were promoted from 2nd division - they were hardly a friggin powerhouse (he had inquired about joining NOBS, but that is another story). Likewise when PW joined, SU had been on the brink a couple years earlier of dropping back to subbies.

 

[Lindommer]

The former Australian captain, John Thornett, attended Sydney Uni and played rugby for Sydney University Football Club. When he graduated he continued his rugby career, with Northern Suburbs. Moving to a district club is what both NFJ and Waugh should've done when their studies were completed. As should every other rugby player from Sydney University.

 

[Lindommer]

......the guy in the car park......

..........is a fucking champ at finding coaches for the Queensland Reds.