Australian Rugby / RA

[southsider]

There's not enough unstructured scrimmage-type play with the ball IMO (either touch or tackle). It makes boys think on their feet and react to a mulitude of different situations (at speed), rather than endless repetition of mind-numbing drills which coach such thinking skills out of young players.

Yea I’d agree for school footy, it’s very structured to the point where you can get in trouble for doing something out of the ordinary/a bit risky

I’d consider club and rep footy below state level to be really unstructured though and does foster better decision making and skills. Small example would be the Touch footy games before training started, was always amazed at how pedestrian and boring the school games were compared to club games where every pass under the sun was tried, kicks were done, changes in direction etc etc and this would reflect in games where from time to time you’d pull out some of those skills, heaven forbid you did a Carlos spencer tunnel ball type pass at school footy

 

[Beer Baron]

Yea I’d agree for school footy, it’s very structured to the point where you can get in trouble for doing something out of the ordinary/a bit risky

I’d consider club and rep footy below state level to be really unstructured though and does foster better decision making and skills. Small example would be the Touch footy games before training started, was always amazed at how pedestrian and boring the school games were compared to club games where every pass under the sun was tried, kicks were done, changes in direction etc etc and this would reflect in games where from time to time you’d pull out some of those skills, heaven forbid you did a Carlos spencer tunnel ball type pass at school footy

Couldn't agree more. As a tight forward you went through 5 years of school footy barely touching the ball (apart from pick and go's) and then the coaches wondered why you didn't look for a 1 man overlap and perfectly execute a draw and pass. For clarity it was done at training, but everyone had their role and you were so well drilled you knew what you were doing in 4 rucks time.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yea I’d agree for school footy, it’s very structured to the point where you can get in trouble for doing something out of the ordinary/a bit risky

I’d consider club and rep footy below state level to be really unstructured though and does foster better decision making and skills. Small example would be the Touch footy games before training started, was always amazed at how pedestrian and boring the school games were compared to club games where every pass under the sun was tried, kicks were done, changes in direction etc etc and this would reflect in games where from time to time you’d pull out some of those skills, heaven forbid you did a Carlos spencer tunnel ball type pass at school footy

That's probably more accurate than my assessment. Most of my playing experience came from club footy and I did find it rather noticeable that when I did play schools Rugby everything was very mechanical. Which sort of helped my school when we started as the few of us who did have Rugby playing experience were all from clubland and it was our ability to play unstructured that helped us actually win against more experienced players.

It was also very noticeable in pre-training touch once we hit Colts. The guys who played most of their Rugby at club level would think nothing of scooting about probing for space and pushing the envelope with their passing. I was a Prop and my favourite thing to do once I got on the inside of my defender was to turn it back to our wing by essentially threading the needle and passing the ball behind the retreating defender I had just beaten and right across the face of any outside defenders. Which worked more often than not. But that was hardly an exception for most of us from club Rugby.

The issue is, that the strict structure that's found in schools Rugby has transferred into our HP environments to the point where its impacting upon the basics of the game now.

 

[Rugby Central]

The issue is, that the strict structure that's found in schools Rugby has transferred into our HP environments to the point where its impacting upon the basics of the game now.

How do I "like" this comment more than once

 

[Bobby Sands]

How do I "like" this comment more than once

Churchie/Nudgee/Tss should just buy the Reds/Wallabies and sort it out.

 

[formerflanker]

Billy Melrose identified the lack of ball handling skills many years ago, and traced some of the problem back to a lack of outdoor playtime for young kids. He consistently looked for innovative ways to have his players "play" with ball in hand outside of training sessions.

I think rigid playing patterns at the Wallaby level started with Greg Smith. He devised patterns of play with each player having a unique role in sequence play for up to (approx) 5 consecutive breakdowns.

 

[Spruce Moose]

The issue is, that the strict structure that's found in schools Rugby has transferred into our HP environments to the point where its impacting upon the basics of the game now.

Maybe thats the problem, I don't think schools can be pushed to teach anything but the standard set of skills due to lack of resources until 1st XV level. Think the onus for development has to be at the foot of the state/regions when they select their U13, U14, etc. groups should be adding an extra layer of skills onto that base to the players that they have identified. I'm not sure if any states are already doing this but maybe looking at having state rugby camps over the summer for U15 and ups where the guys don't play tournaments but train together and work on these additional skills with top level coaches/players. Unfortunately it would mean the guys/girls wouldn't be able to play summer sports but would benefit their rugby a lot compared to just playing tournaments.

 

[liquor box]

Maybe thats the problem, I don't think schools can be pushed to teach anything but the standard set of skills due to lack of resources until 1st XV level. Think the onus for development has to be at the foot of the state/regions when they select their U13, U14, etc. groups should be adding an extra layer of skills onto that base to the players that they have identified. I'm not sure if any states are already doing this but maybe looking at having state rugby camps over the summer for U15 and ups where the guys don't play tournaments but train together and work on these additional skills with top level coaches/players. Unfortunately it would mean the guys/girls wouldn't be able to play summer sports but would benefit their rugby a lot compared to just playing tournaments.

I think some schools dismiss the basic skills and prefer huge players who can run over the top of an opponent, this is an effective way of winning games but does little for player development when the huge player with no skills gets to Super Rugby and is no longer 25kg bigger than the opposition.

This will never be fixed, winning is the most important thing to the schools.

 

[The Honey Badger]

I think some schools dismiss the basic skills and prefer huge players who can run over the top of an opponent, this is an effective way of winning games but does little for player development when the huge player with no skills gets to Super Rugby and is no longer 25kg bigger than the opposition.

This will never be fixed, winning is the most important thing to the schools.

Great Post. Very true.

The recent success of Scots and Newington in Sydney GPS over the last 12 years certainly featured big boppers.

 

[formerflanker]

Great Post. Very true.

The recent success of Scots and Newington in Sydney GPS over the last 12 years certainly featured big boppers.

Some of whom have gone on to do very well at Super level.

 

[Joe Blow]

Im not sure if thats all true. The big kids monster the little ones for sure but where my 14 year old goes to school they have a big emphasis on skills. Holiday camps and visits from Waratahs players etc. Their teams are not the greatest but they enjoy the game and the coaching is pretty good.
When I was growing up we played both league and union and watched a lot of both live and on the box. The skills we acquired were mostly from the back yard and mimicking our heroes and/or older players.
Could be that the youth these days are more interested in social media, games and rubbish streams than actual footy?

 

[I like to watch]

I’ve seen coaches set up skills stations at every training session,then when they do ball work as a team,it’s clear there is no role for the skills they’ve just been practicing.
How the you get coaches more focused on improving skills,rather than winning at all costs is the big question.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Some of whom have gone on to do very well at Super level.

Not that many, and some have done well in the NRL.

 

[USARugger]

Im not sure if thats all true. The big kids monster the little ones for sure but where my 14 year old goes to school they have a big emphasis on skills. Holiday camps and visits from Waratahs players etc. Their teams are not the greatest but they enjoy the game and the coaching is pretty good.
When I was growing up we played both league and union and watched a lot of both live and on the box. The skills we acquired were mostly from the back yard and mimicking our heroes and/or older players.
Could be that the youth these days are more interested in social media, games and rubbish streams than actual footy?

You can do skill based drills all day but if you aren't reinforcing them through match-situation play, scrimmages, and live opposed exercises - it won't mean a lot. Building a bridge from something like learning how to throw a pass, and then learning how to throw a pass at speed with a defender closing down on you while you try to maximize your draw before unleashing an inside runner can be much harder than it would seem from the outside or at a cursory glance.

There are also a lot of youth sides around the world that are very guilty of their "skills" training having an extremely heavy emphasis on the skills they need to execute their particular gameplan (focus on winning and not player development) and not on the skills required to become a well-rounded footy player.

 

[Joe Blow]

You can do skill based drills all day but if you aren't reinforcing them through match-situation play, scrimmages, and live opposed exercises - it won't mean a lot. Building a bridge from something like learning how to throw a pass, and then learning how to throw a pass at speed with a defender closing down on you while you try to maximize your draw before unleashing an inside runner can be much harder than it would seem from the outside or at a cursory glance.

There are also a lot of youth sides around the world that are very guilty of their "skills" training having an extremely heavy emphasis on the skills they need to execute their particular gameplan (focus on winning and not player development) and not on the skills required to become a well-rounded footy player.

That may be so but I still assert that people my age learned a lot of their skills playing touch with the local kids or games locally with mates. You hardly see kids these days playing touch or throwing/kicking a ball around. Im talking basic run, draw and pass skills and kicking skills from playing forcings back. Thats where we honed our skills at an early age.

 

[Spruce Moose]

I think some schools dismiss the basic skills and prefer huge players who can run over the top of an opponent, this is an effective way of winning games but does little for player development when the huge player with no skills gets to Super Rugby and is no longer 25kg bigger than the opposition.

This will never be fixed, winning is the most important thing to the schools.

I think NZ combated this years ago by introducing weight limits for underage rugby, which can be important especially amongst teens who may have growth spurts earlier than others.

I remember a family friend was billeted with Jason Jenkins (current Bulls Lock) when they were both 15 and he was already 190cm and close to 90 kg. Not sure what the average 15 year old is supposed to do when confronted with that!

 

[liquor box]

I think NZ combated this years ago by introducing weight limits for underage rugby, which can be important especially amongst teens who may have growth spurts earlier than others.

I remember a family friend was billeted with Jason Jenkins (current Bulls Lock) when they were both 15 and he was already 190cm and close to 90 kg. Not sure what the average 15 year old is supposed to do when confronted with that!

The problem with weight limits is that Rugby should be a game for all people. By the last year of school you have second rowers who are already 6"6 and 115kg and halfbacks who are only 70kg int the same team.

The differences in sizes required for different positions makes it hard to play fair.

 

[Slim 293]

The problem with weight limits is that Rugby should be a game for all people.

And yet the greatest rugby nation on the planet has been doing it since forever.........

Anyways, RA rolled out a size for age policy this year:

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2018/02/15/rugby-australia-weight-age-changes

 

[Strewthcobber]

Whoever is teaching our front rowers how to throw line-breaking try-scoring passes is going ok.

Bit of focus on some other skills/positions would be nice though

 

[Joe Blow]

Kepu had a lot of nice touches in that game and brings experience to the front row. As Nick Bishop suggests, he should be looked at as our starting LH moving forward with AAA on the other side.