Australian Rugby / RA

[half]

We use the same criteria as every other sport though so it's a like for like comparison.

Maybe.... but some sports under count those involved and others don't have to worry as their numbers are so high.

Athletics has huge numbers but broken down into a number of sub groups, running, jumping etc, Tennis has numbers playing casually but not in teams, Basketball has the second highest registered numbers in Australia and thats not counting a huge number of pick up games played by people who never enrol in a club, Football the highest and like Basketball has many pick up games were players are not registered to clubs, Swimming either as a pastime or actual competition is huge, E games are also growing rapidly.

The AFL are the GOATs when it comes to adding numbers, if you come along to a 10 minute AFL day you are counted, and they never discount the overlap between school and club players.

The issue [if issue is the right word] with our player numbers is first it has not grown in line with population increases, and in newer areas its not seen that much, i.e. go to a new development in say South West Sydney and find a rugby team they don't exist where as, League, Basketball, AFL & Football all have locals willing to go and start clubs with enough willing parents to sent their kids to.

Another point, and IMO this is a biggie, with no local teams in a national domestic competition, we don't have appeal of those that do, and over time the quality of juniors has fallen.

I wish ForceFan the best and hopefully he posts his finding when finished.

 

[Braveheart81]

All sports count the participants they are able to count towards these statistics based on accepted criteria because they are linked to funding.

You will not find a single sport that actively underreports their participants.

 

[Strewthcobber]

The chart posted above is from Wikipedia, which uses the Ausplay survey as it's source, which literally does count all of those pickup/informal games in its metrics.

The issue for union in using these numbers is there aren't very many informal games of rugby union breaking out.

Those kind of things are going to be picked up under the touch footy numbers

 

[half]

All sports count the participants they are able to count towards these statistics based on accepted criteria because they are linked to funding.

You will not find a single sport that actively underreports their participants.

True, but there are in some sports, with mega numbers in pick up games that never join a club or addend a code day, Basketball is arguably the biggest in this area and maybe Cricket with many Indians not joining teams but still playing, and the number of people doing laps in swimming is huge [I accept doing laps and jogging are forms of excise, however they still bring people in contact with a code] E-games another example of where many kids go today.

The beyond obvious is player numbers are no where if you count population increases, where they were 20 years ago, and the quality of juniors is less than say 20 years ago.

Equally, Super Rugby, has in some ways had taken away the local loyalty that comes from a team representing and area. Many of the areas / region in Sydney were the Shute Shield teams played have been lost to other codes, not all because of having no local team, the local team is seen as the third string level. it does have an effect.

The overall effect is we are fighting on two separate fronts, first in trying to gain greater acceptance by the broader community, and second in trying to get quality players in numbers. Getting quality players vis juniors is needed in all sports. Cricket, Basketball, Football, AFL & League they are all get a reasonable number of quality juniors. Basketball & Football are not fighting to get extra numbers, in fact Basketball is going gang busters.

The Central Coast used to be League heartland, with Rugby a very strong number two, today its the Mariners first, then daylight then League [among the over 40's], with Rugby propping up the base. The effect of having a local team is huge for quality players, and local media up here is always on about various players in the Mariners who come from the Coast. Without the local team all these kids would have been in league or rugby.

 

[LeCheese]

True, but there are in some sports, with mega numbers in pick up games that never join a club or addend a code day, Basketball is arguably the biggest in this area and maybe Cricket with many Indians not joining teams but still playing, and the number of people doing laps in swimming is huge [I accept doing laps and jogging are forms of excise, however they still bring people in contact with a code] E-games another example of where many kids go today.

The beyond obvious is player numbers are no where if you count population increases, where they were 20 years ago, and the quality of juniors is less than say 20 years ago.

Equally, Super Rugby, has in some ways had taken away the local loyalty that comes from a team representing and area. Many of the areas / region in Sydney were the Shute Shield teams played have been lost to other codes, not all because of having no local team, the local team is seen as the third string level. it does have an effect.

The overall effect is we are fighting on two separate fronts, first in trying to gain greater acceptance by the broader community, and second in trying to get quality players in numbers. Getting quality players vis juniors is needed in all sports. Cricket, Basketball, Football, AFL & League they are all get a reasonable number of quality juniors. Basketball & Football are not fighting to get extra numbers, in fact Basketball is going gang busters.

The Central Coast used to be League heartland, with Rugby a very strong number two, today its the Mariners first, then daylight then League [among the over 40's], with Rugby propping up the base. The effect of having a local team is huge for quality players, and local media up here is always on about various players in the Mariners who come from the Coast. Without the local team all these kids would have been in league or rugby.

Surely you'd have to be leading the forum for number of words per post

 

[oztimmay]

Surely you'd have to be leading the forum for number of words per post

Additional server space has been purchased...

 

[Marce]

The numbers are all fluff and include children with the most limited exposure to the sport because it helps get government grants.
If there was truly 60k students playing the game, let’s say 25 kids per team. That means there is 2,400 different teams in the country. If there is 100 schools that genuinely play it, it would mean they each have 24 teams. It just isn’t the case.

The numbers are inflated. I lived in Sydney and was quite difficult to find something about rugby outside the strongholds and even in the strongholds League is far popular

I never believed in those numbers cause the average Argentinian rugby club has more followers and players than the average Aussie rugby club but according those numbers Australia has more registered players. It not makes sense

I lived in Manly, Bondi and Bonnyrigg (Western far far away) and in Western there's not sign of Union. You have hundreds of League clubs to play their game. Western Sydney is overcrowded by League clubs and they still work hard every day to increase their numbers:

Is RA doing something similar?

 

[LevitatingSocks]

The numbers are inflated. I lived in Sydney and was quite difficult to find something about rugby outside the strongholds and even in the strongholds League is far popular

I never believed in those numbers cause the average Argentinian rugby club has more followers and players than the average Aussie rugby club but according those numbers Australia has more registered players. It not makes sense

I lived in Manly, Bondi and Bonnyrigg (Western far far away) and in Western there's not sign of Union. You have hundreds of League clubs to play their game. Western Sydney is overcrowded by League clubs and they still work hard every day to increase their numbers:

Is RA doing something similar?

Realistically do they even have the money to do something similar?

 

[Linerunner2023]

Watched a few codes over the last few weeks
Watching super rugby seems domestically rugby in Aus is slowly dying
Compared to afl and nrl who advertise everywhere, get the crowds, fans and go out to western Sydney etc rugby has gone no where
The crowds are just about gone, much of the non rugby public don’t even know it’s being played
And some rugby supporters are watching rugby league and only get interested once the test season is on
Unless they change what’s going on domestically and not just internationals it feels like it will continue to fall into a whole
No one goes to rebels games, tahs and brumbies are not even half full and the reds crowd look very small compared to raiders and broncos packing stadiums
I remember going to tahs and brumbies games with full crowds and big lead ups to games!
Rugby has itself to blame, with it falling well behind other codes for the last decade or two! We need a stronger and larger domestic comp to keep players in Aus and also the code otherwise they will continue to flock overseas and go to league
The game hasn’t helped itself allowing the refs to take over
It will take a long time but somehow they need a larger 10-16 team domestic comp (don’t know if they use club rivalries to build professional teams) but there is such a lack of opportunity is Aus compared to nrl and afl
And require a full season comp.
it still feels like club rugby, city and country clubs and school rugby is still strong with clubs but it is concerning when super rugby crowds are falling away and viewing while many rugby players don’t watch super rugby and watch nrl instead

 

[Derpus]

Watched a few codes over the last few weeks
Watching super rugby seems domestically rugby in Aus is slowly dying
Compared to afl and nrl who advertise everywhere, get the crowds, fans and go out to western Sydney etc rugby has gone no where
The crowds are just about gone, much of the non rugby public don’t even know it’s being played
And some rugby supporters are watching rugby league and only get interested once the test season is on
Unless they change what’s going on domestically and not just internationals it feels like it will continue to fall into a whole
No one goes to rebels games, tahs and brumbies are not even half full and the reds crowd look very small compared to raiders and broncos packing stadiums
I remember going to tahs and brumbies games with full crowds and big lead ups to games!
Rugby has itself to blame, with it falling well behind other codes for the last decade or two! We need a stronger and larger domestic comp to keep players in Aus and also the code otherwise they will continue to flock overseas and go to league
The game hasn’t helped itself allowing the refs to take over
It will take a long time but somehow they need a larger 10-16 team domestic comp (don’t know if they use club rivalries to build professional teams) but there is such a lack of opportunity is Aus compared to nrl and afl
And require a full season comp.
it still feels like club rugby, city and country clubs and school rugby is still strong with clubs but it is concerning when super rugby crowds are falling away and viewing while many rugby players don’t watch super rugby and watch nrl instead

Yeah we know.

 

[Tomikin]

Yeah we know.

Man I can't even read some of these longer posts got two lines in.. skipped it and your answer gives me all I need to know

 

[Ignoto]

Compared to afl and nrl who advertise everywhere, get the crowds, fans and go out to western Sydney etc rugby has gone no where

I must have been in dreamland when I watched a segment with Willie Nelson complaining about the turn out to Accor this week with sub 8,00 turning out. Maybe the rum and cokes went to my head as I listened to triple m call the last 15 minutes of the Broncos game where they stopped calling the events and talked nothing about the Eels needing another coach.

There's plenty not right with our code but you're kidding yourself if you can't see similar themes in the other codes.

 

[Derpus]

I must have been in dreamland when I watched a segment with Willie Nelson complaining about the turn out to Accor this week with sub 8,00 turning out. Maybe the rum and cokes went to my head as I listened to triple m call the last 15 minutes of the Broncos game where they stopped calling the events and talked nothing about the Eels needing another coach.

There's plenty not right with our code but you're kidding yourself if you can't see similar themes in the other codes.

People are like 40% poorer across the board compared to three years ago. Sport is discretionary spending so one of the first things to go.

 

[Linerunner2023]

Watched a few codes over the last few weeks
Watching super rugby seems domestically rugby in Aus is slowly dying
Compared to afl and nrl who advertise everywhere, get the crowds, fans and go out to western Sydney etc rugby has gone no where
The crowds are just about gone, much of the non rugby public don’t even know it’s being played
And some rugby supporters are watching rugby league and only get interested once the test season is on
Unless they change what’s going on domestically and not just internationals it feels like it will continue to fall into a whole
No one goes to rebels games, tahs and brumbies are not even half full and the reds crowd look very small

Rugby has itself to blame, with it falling well behind other codes for the last decade or two! We need a stronger and larger domestic comp to keep players in Aus and also the code otherwise they will continue to flock overseas and go to league
The game hasn’t helped itself allowing the refs to take over
It will take a long time but somehow they need a larger 10-16 team domestic comp (don’t know if they use club rivalries to build professional teams) but there is such a lack of opportunity is Aus compared to nrl and afl
And require a full season comp.
it still feels like club rugby, city and country clubs and school rugby is still strong with clubs but it is concerning when super rugby crowds are falling away and viewing while many rugby players don’t watch super rugby and watch nrl instead

I must have been in dreamland when I watched a segment with Willie Nelson complaining about the turn out to Accor this week with sub 8,00 turning out. Maybe the rum and cokes went to my head as I listened to triple m call the last 15 minutes of the Broncos game where they stopped calling the events and talked nothing about the Eels needing another coach.

There's plenty not right with our code but you're kidding yourself if you can't see similar themes in the other codes.

Well done for finding a Thursday night game in the rain at Accor with the bottom side having half a nsw cup side against one of the top sides and the score showed this! And Sydney has 8 teams compared to 1 rugby side
How many more do the reds have on a good night? Meanwhile broncos are packing Suncorp
apart from the international game I can’t find a lot of things to brag about with super rugby atm
Again for the whole 2 / 3 games in Aus for the weekend compared to 8-9 for other codes

 

[Linerunner2023]

People are like 40% poorer across the board compared to three years ago. Sport is discretionary spending so one of the first things to go.

Must only be rugby supporters as afl and nrl crowds and tv viewing is in a steep rise

 

[Strewthcobber]

People are like 40% poorer across the board compared to three years ago. Sport is discretionary spending so one of the first things to go.

AFL just had its second (round 7) and third (round 8) highest attendance weeks of all time, after having its highest ever in round 1 2024, all over 400,000.

The NRL is currently averaging well over 20k for the first time in its history.

Seems like some sport discretionary spending is still pretty strong

 

[Linerunner2023]

AFL just had its second (round 7) and third (round 8) highest attendance weeks of all time, after having its highest ever in round 1 2024, all over 400,000.

The NRL is currently averaging well over 20k for the first time in its history.

Seems like some sport discretionary spending is still pretty strong

It was a very poor comment
In 2024
AFL averaging 40k
NRL 21k
NRL has a 30% higher tv audience then afl and does not include Origen
And both on an incline
Super rugby only 12k - over 10 years ago was over 20k and only 2-3 games per week
The salary caps were also around the same in 2012 with 3 codes, now super rugby is nearly 1/3 of the others

 

[Derpus]

A demographic breakdown of attendance would be intetesting

 

[Strewthcobber]

In 2024
AFL averaging 40k
NRL 21k
Super rugby only 12k -

NBL also smashing their attendance records, they got more than 1 million through the gate this year, with an average >7k

 

[Strewthcobber]

A demographic breakdown of attendance would be intetesting

Which demographic do you mean?