Australian Rugby / RA

[Dan54]

You’re focusing on the minors Dan.

Probably mate, as I was struggling with how it all will work, and probably hitting a lull in things on here at moment.

 

[KOB1987]

I think we can rest assured that an old boy with no senior executive experience, a has-been cockhead and a marketer aren't the ones eh.

I’m inclined to give Waugh a bit more time before making a judgement, he has inherited this mess just like anyone else would have. I know everyone is focusing on the AFR article of a couple of weeks ago, in particular the ‘GPS day’ thing, but that actual interview that he was quoted from was from before he was appointed and he also said several sensible things during it. Mclennan should be and can be confined to marketing & broadcasting issues outside of his chairman responsibilities. And let’s see what happens with Eddie.

I think the overall composition of the board, and the people directly involved with implementation of the centralisation & HP programs are the keys going forward.

 

[Wilson]

I’m inclined to give Waugh a bit more time before making a judgement, he has inherited this mess just like anyone else would have. I know everyone is focusing on the AFR article of a couple of weeks ago, in particular the ‘GPS day’ thing, but that actual interview that he was quoted from was from before he was appointed and he also said several sensible things during it. Mclennan should be and can be confined to marketing & broadcasting issues outside of his chairman responsibilities. And let’s see what happens with Eddie.

I think the overall composition of the board, and the people directly involved with implementation of the centralisation & HP programs are the keys going forward.

You make it sound like he arrived in the job this year to find things a mess as though he didn't spend the last 5 years on the board contributing to it.

 

[KOB1987]

You make it sound like he arrived in the job this year to find things a mess as though he didn't spend the last 5 years on the board contributing to it.

No I’m fully aware of that, he was a non exec on the board and applied for the job presumably because he has ideas to turn things around. I’m not saying he’s definitely the right person, but the fact he got the job is probably an indication of the caliber of the other applicants. What I am saying is he needs the opportunity to prove himself, the alternative is to fire him and then appoint one of the other applicants who will likely be a different person that everyone will still whinge about.

Ive said this before, but what we need in the system is a proper sports administrator, and I’d be looking in the USA for that person. He or she doesn’t have to be CEO though, could even be a consultant.

 

[Wilson]

No I’m fully aware of that, he was a non exec on the board and applied for the job presumably because he has ideas to turn things around. I’m not saying he’s definitely the right person, but the fact he got the job is probably an indication of the caliber of the other applicants. What I am saying is he needs the opportunity to prove himself, the alternative is to fire him and then appoint one of the other applicants who will likely be a different person that everyone will still whinge about.

Ive said this before, but what we need in the system is a proper sports administrator, and I’d be looking in the USA for that person. He or she doesn’t have to be CEO though, could even be a consultant.

I mostly agree but I don't think you can let him off for comments in that AFR article for being before his appointment given he was firmly enmeshed in the management of RA and had just come off an interview process where his plan to fix the game should have been front and centre in his mind. More broadly he is failing at every test so far - advocating an inferior model for a third tier that looks to be both more expensive and less performant from development perspectives, failing to secure private equity, struggling to get centralisation over the line or even deliver a coherent vision for it and the list goes on.

All that said as much as I think he was never the right man for the job and would like to see him gone I agree that we can't keep flailing from CEO to CEO. Part of the reason we're stuck with Phil is because Marinos was previously was a poor appointment and he left suddenly. It's a pity Clarke wasn't interested in taking on the job long term as he seems to have been the best candidate we've had for a long time.

 

[Ignoto]

The fact one of the first things he's suggested is focus on an old boys day makes me think there's very little of substance behind his vision.

More over, there has been very little noise coming out of the RA leadership team from the mess they've made here other than the usual post world cup review that no-one will read.

Now that the Ex-Wallaby captains have one of their own in the seat, well hear bugger all from their mouths and the unity will subside.

 

[Slayer!]

Good looking tweet...but 26500 spectators across 105 games comes out to 252 people watching each match. Taking into account lots of those tournaments are junior games with free entry ,don't think we should be kidded into thinking Ballymore is a money printing machine.

Still, QRU have done a much better job than most re their commercial operations and are well set for future success if other pieces fall into place.

Considering many days there have been 5-10 matches on, you're looking at an average of about 1000 per day...

 

[Slayer!]

Ballymore is being pushed as a grass roots ‘community facility’ for funding sake. It’s exactly the picture they want paint to justify the existing government funding for upgrades and seek additional funding for rugby owned facilities.

The ulterior motive is obviously to improve the commercial viability; however pitching Ballymore as Brisbanes second rectangular stadium is politically a poor move, hence the pivot to the seek funding as a community facility and high performance centre for women.

It'd be both, wouldn't it? Girls Olympic Sevens based there, 10,000-capacity stadium for the smaller Reds/all Roar/NRLW?

 

[KOB1987]

I mostly agree but I don't think you can let him off for comments in that AFR article for being before his appointment given he was firmly enmeshed in the management of Rugby Australia and had just come off an interview process where his plan to fix the game should have been front and centre in his mind. More broadly he is failing at every test so far - advocating an inferior model for a third tier that looks to be both more expensive and less performant from development perspectives, failing to secure private equity, struggling to get centralisation over the line or even deliver a coherent vision for it and the list goes on.

All that said as much as I think he was never the right man for the job and would like to see him gone I agree that we can't keep flailing from CEO to CEO. Part of the reason we're stuck with Phil is because Marinos was previously was a poor appointment and he left suddenly. It's a pity Clarke wasn't interested in taking on the job long term as he seems to have been the best candidate we've had for a long time.

That’s all fair, the club/third tier model was just one option and has had mixed reception, it seems a lot of people like it. I don’t like it all that much as it stands but I think it can be modified into something that could work as a precursor to a domestic comp. Anyway, there is no point arguing about whether he is the right bloke or not as he won’t be going anywhere this early, they all just need to roll the sleeves up and get to work.

The fact one of the first things he's suggested is focus on an old boys day makes me think there's very little of substance behind his vision.

He didn’t actually ever suggest it as such. While I agree it wasn’t well thought out, the context of it was to showcase the top level of schoolboy rugby (GPS) to the public to get more kids interested in playing. It’s been referred to as an old boys day by people on here only as far as I am aware.

 

[Ignoto]

Also key to his vision is appealing to existing fans, many of whom are from Sydney’s lower north shore and eastern suburbs. “I love the concept of an old boys’ day at Allianz Stadium ... three back-to-back GPS games at Allianz Stadium from 11am to 5pm, and you just make it a festival,” he says

How Phil Waugh plans to save Australian rugby

The Wallaby and former Waratahs centurion has big aspirations for the game’s future. But he needs a big cash injection to achieve his vision.

www.afr.com

Comes from his first interview as the CEO.

 

[Braveheart81]

Comes from his first interview as the CEO.

And was given before he commenced in the role which I think is important here. It's also creating a strong focus on a couple of lines out of a larger interview and making that the problem.

Re-engaging with people who are already fans of rugby and getting them to attend/spend money on Super Rugby and the Wallabies is clearly an important goal. They are surely far easier to convert than people who are not currently fans of rugby.

There are lots of people who spend a lot of time around rugby but are limited to club rugby or school rugby. In times past they were much more engaged with the professional game.

It grates on people because they view GPS/private schools as a big problem with rugby but it's also just the reality of the sport and not really something we can shy away from.

It's crucial we don't just look at that demographic but pretending it isn't important would be foolish.

 

[HogansHeros]

And was given before he commenced in the role which I think is important here. It's also creating a strong focus on a couple of lines out of a larger interview and making that the problem.

Re-engaging with people who are already fans of rugby and getting them to attend/spend money on Super Rugby and the Wallabies is clearly an important goal. They are surely far easier to convert than people who are not currently fans of rugby.

There are lots of people who spend a lot of time around rugby but are limited to club rugby or school rugby. In times past they were much more engaged with the professional game.

It grates on people because they view GPS/private schools as a big problem with rugby but it's also just the reality of the sport and not really something we can shy away from.

It's crucial we don't just look at that demographic but pretending it isn't important would be foolish.

Agreed, Im not a private school boy, but I feel there needs to be re-investment into the spaces where Rugby has had a strong hold, where that hold is loosening.
Start there, cause surely got to be a hell of a lot easier then convincing people with no interest in rugby to become interested.

 

[KOB1987]

Comes from his first interview as the CEO.

My bad, I tried to look at the article beforehand but it was paywalled. I was going off my interpretation of it, as BH points out above and I mentioned earlier he also made several sensible comments during the same interview.

 

[Ignoto]

And was given before he commenced in the role which I think is important here. It's also creating a strong focus on a couple of lines out of a larger interview and making that the problem.

Re-engaging with people who are already fans of rugby and getting them to attend/spend money on Super Rugby and the Wallabies is clearly an important goal. They are surely far easier to convert than people who are not currently fans of rugby.

There are lots of people who spend a lot of time around rugby but are limited to club rugby or school rugby. In times past they were much more engaged with the professional game.

It grates on people because they view GPS/private schools as a big problem with rugby but it's also just the reality of the sport and not really something we can shy away from.

It's crucial we don't just look at that demographic but pretending it isn't important would be foolish.

Sure, these are all valid points. But take a step back as an outsider not from Sydney.

One of the first ideas he talks about is an Old Boys Day in Sydney.

How does that help ease any concerns people outside of the Sydney private school bubble have that the newly appointed CEO from a banking background is the right person to help grow the game in my state/city? It just seems like more hot air rather than anything of substance.

I come from the target audience Waugh is proposing (albeit in Brisbane). The idea of an oldboys day at Suncorp would be so low on the totem pole of things that interest me and my cohort. I already have an old boys day at my school, I care very little of watching Nudgee play TGS, Churchie belt Grammar etc.

There are more effective ways to re-engage this target audience and across the country, not just Sydney.

 

[Braveheart81]

Sure, these are all valid points. But take a step back as an outsider not from Sydney.

One of the first ideas he talks about is an Old Boys Day in Sydney.

Who knows? Maybe he made several comments about other locations but the AFR being pretty Sydney centric and the journo being from Sydney chose to focus their piece on things relating to Sydney.

There was a pretty strong focus on backgrounding him as a Sydney kid in terms of where he grew up, went to school and played rugby.

It was a puff piece profiling Waugh loosely based around potential private equity plans for their business of sport section. It's not like it was a press conference detailing the future direction of Rugby in Australia.

I totally get where you're coming from but I don't think there is an alternative where this gets printed as something that is all things for all people. The alternative is you don't have the piece at all at the risk of offending someone by not mentioning them.

 

[Pfitzy]

I get both arguments: shoring up the systems and base we have, and pointing out that we need to look at new solutions because the old ones aren't fit for purpose.

Waugh's talk about a GPS day at Allianz, or making Club Rugby the heart of the system might just be words to comfort a skittish base. The fact that both Schools and SRU are self-serving, insular parts of the scene isn't changed by these statements.

What he does next in terms of making all areas of the game realise we can't die alone is key for me.

 

[half]

We have some deep historic issues we have never tried to fix, nor by many [often most] even acknowledge they were/ are an issue, and the chickens have come home to roost.

At the core, the base of the Rugby pyramid is the need for a large number of quality juniors, supported by high quality coaching. With the high quality coaching well spread and in many areas.

The now generally accepted view of Super Rugby [although its take a long time] is Super Rugby, has many flaws, not the least of which are the small number of teams and short season

Hop in Dr Who's Tardis, and go back to the say mid 90's to say mid 00's our national teams had it to themselves, today Netball, Basketball, League [in the SP], Football, Swimming, New forms of cricket, 'national women's sides in cricket and football. All these compete with rugby for media space, national loyalty, sponsorships and people willing to watch.

Over decades the importance of our national teams has over ridden all other decisions. The need for a National Domestic Competition ignored, and more importantly second and third tier competitions ignored, and also bled for Super Rugby.

Sport at its heart, needs a broad and well trained base, our junior competitions are pathic when compared to others.

Rugby, has an aging support base, and mostly male,

Rugby's engagement with the young is beyond poor, and in large part due to how poor junior competitions are, further added to by lack of meaningful domestic matches at division 1 professional, with second and third tier competitions sliding further behind.

Reading the Phil Waugh's article from June in the Fin Review to me he is not the person, he is to close to the past and those admins he has worked with.

IMO rugby needs someone from either AFL or football who understand how to run and develop junior competitions, as the pyramid base is essential to rugbies future.

 

[rodha]

We have some deep historic issues we have never tried to fix, nor by many [often most] even acknowledge they were/ are an issue, and the chickens have come home to roost.

At the core, the base of the Rugby pyramid is the need for a large number of quality juniors, supported by high quality coaching. With the high quality coaching well spread and in many areas.

The now generally accepted view of Super Rugby [although its take a long time] is Super Rugby, has many flaws, not the least of which are the small number of teams and short season

Hop in Dr Who's Tardis, and go back to the say mid 90's to say mid 00's our national teams had it to themselves, today Netball, Basketball, League [in the SP], Football, Swimming, New forms of cricket, 'national women's sides in cricket and football. All these compete with rugby for media space, national loyalty, sponsorships and people willing to watch.

Over decades the importance of our national teams has over ridden all other decisions. The need for a National Domestic Competition ignored, and more importantly second and third tier competitions ignored, and also bled for Super Rugby.

Sport at its heart, needs a broad and well trained base, our junior competitions are pathic when compared to others.

Rugby, has an aging support base, and mostly male,

Rugby's engagement with the young is beyond poor, and in large part due to how poor junior competitions are, further added to by lack of meaningful domestic matches at division 1 professional, with second and third tier competitions sliding further behind.

Reading the Phil Waugh's article from June in the Fin Review to me he is not the person, he is to close to the past and those admins he has worked with.

IMO rugby needs someone from either AFL or football who understand how to run and develop junior competitions, as the pyramid base is essential to rugbies future.

The last few years have been tough for wallabies supporters, however, this is the best opportunity for Australia to look at itself, restructure, and come back strong, like they used to be back in the 90's and early 00's. Australia were the first country to win the cup twice, and almost (if not for Johnny Wilkinson) the first country to win it not only three times, but consecutively.

Let's not forget, Ireland, who are considered favourites for the World Cup and the current World No. 1's, were sitting at 9th in the years leading up to the last World Cup, France was 10th. David Nucifora (who was shunned from coaching the Wallabies in favour of a useless Robbie Deans) went to Ireland and is hugely responsible for the success they are currently experiencing. If Ireland beat NZ next week, they’ll equal an 18 game win streak only ever done twice before, by NZ and England (funnily enough, the English side under Jones). What Australia now need is for Nucifora to take hold in Australia.

 

[Adam84]

It'd be both, wouldn't it? Girls Olympic Sevens based there, 10,000-capacity stadium for the smaller Reds/all Roar/NRLW?

Ultimately QRU want a stadium and facility which is commercial sustainable, but they need government funding. And for various political reasons they aren’t are going to receive funding for purely stadium upgrades, it needs to be sold as a community and high performance facility first and foremost.

Aussie Women’s 7s team be based their hasn’t been confirmed yet, they’re seeking another tranche of funding which in line with the Eastern Stand upgrade.

 

[half]

The last few years have been tough for wallabies supporters, however, this is the best opportunity for Australia to look at itself, restructure, and come back strong, like they used to be back in the 90's and early 00's. Australia were the first country to win the cup twice, and almost (if not for Johnny Wilkinson) the first country to win it not only three times, but consecutively.

Let's not forget, Ireland, who are considered favourites for the World Cup and the current World No. 1's, were sitting at 9th in the years leading up to the last World Cup, France was 10th. David Nucifora (who was shunned from coaching the Wallabies in favour of a useless Robbie Deans) went to Ireland and is hugely responsible for the success they are currently experiencing. If Ireland beat NZ next week, they’ll equal an 18 game win streak only ever done twice before, by NZ and England (funnily enough, the English side under Jones). What Australia now need is for Nucifora to take hold in Australia.

I forget who in history said this and its exact context, I think it was about a failed company.

If we ask the wrong questions, we get the wrong solution. The wrong solution will accelerate the decline.

In my very very very humble opinion today the question is why are our juniors so poor and why do we so poorly connect with younger people.

The questions we ask and problems we are trying to solve is those being asked by an aging mostly white male rusted fixed on fans. That is not where our future lies. We should be asking how do we connect to the young.

Puts on helmet and amour and at the risk of once again being accused of heresy. This is but a small example of many things they do, the MLS do connect to a young fan base in large part through their social media. Two vids both about 12 minutes long, and a few years old, its from a series called the Movement they did of over 50 similar such vids. This is how you connect to a fan base and drag people in.

The first vid is about Atlanta and the second is about what they call Soccer City. This is so different to what we are talking about but by the holy Mary it worked. Interesting they show little Football to sell Football. If interested have a look at it and understand it worked and been hugely successful/