Australian Rugby / RA

[eastman]

Honestly, some times it feels as though some within our game tend to view the game as their own little secret club. And it's easier to protect that club by sowing the idea that we're just too small and it will be just far too hard to do anything. So we might as well not even try. Just stay in our comfortable little bubbles.

Rugby is in no position to do anything ambitious at this stage- we are in a consolidate/ survive point in time.

Let’s wait until we get some money in the coffers.

 

[eastman]

Honestly, some times it feels as though some within our game tend to view the game as their own little secret club. And it's easier to protect that club by sowing the idea that we're just too small and it will be just far too hard to do anything. So we might as well not even try. Just stay in our comfortable little bubbles.

But let’s continue with this delusional brand new competition with multiple teams in Sydney and Brisbane. Let’s make sure we cover Adelaide and Darwin too for a real tribal and national flavour!

 

[hifflepiff]

Rugby is in no position to do anything ambitious at this stage- we are in a consolidate/ survive point in time.

Let’s wait until we get some money in the coffers.

How do you propose we do that? The games been in a 'consolidate /survive point' for the past decade.

Expanding Super AU with new privately owned teams would cost the unions nothing. [Edits]

 

[Adam84]

Setting up a domestic competition its own management separate from RA, and partial/full private ownership of teams would cost the unions nothing.

There’s always a cost.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

But let’s continue with this delusional brand new competition with multiple teams in Sydney and Brisbane. Let’s make sure we cover Adelaide and Darwin too for a real tribal and national flavour!

What brand new competition? I'm talking about building on a competition featuring 10 established teams.

 

[hifflepiff]

There’s always a cost.

What would the costs be? And would it really cost anymore than the millions wasted on over two decades of a format which has delivered nothing more than smaller crowds, smaller TV deals and a slow decline into irrelevance?

 

[kiap]

You are totally missing the point. It was the enormous financial and political strength of the VFL that enabled expansion.

Ahh no. The VFL was financially on the brink of bust.

They had to ponzi up via expansion fees to survive.

Subsequently they got their act together and, in no small part helped by the Super League War, became the clear #1.

Political strength, I grant you - but then planning, absolutely.

 

[liquor box]

1. he's a good coach
2. perhaps he's already on a full time contract from RA and therefore saves money having to hire someone else.
3. Defense strategies have evolved since his time with the wallabies.

He must be one of the best, ever!

Imagine being able to fix the Wallabies with a simple fix after conceding 6 tries, most good coaches would have enacted the simple fixes prior to conceding the 6 tries but I guess then we would not appreciate the brilliance

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/wallabies-defence-woes-easy-fix-grey

Wallabies defence coach Nathan Grey says the team's dire performance in his area can be easily fixed ahead of Saturday's return clash with the All Blacks in Wellington.
Australia conceded six tries and missed a whopping 38 tackles in Saturday's 42-8 defeat in the Rugby Championship and Bledisloe Cup opener in Sydney.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Apparently there may be a tournament potentially hosted in Adelaide in October based off the old ARS featuring the 'minor' states plus NSW and QLD Country. Would really like to see a team from the Sydney and Brisbane subbies comps as well.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Apparently there may be a tournament potentially hosted in Adelaide in October based off the old ARS featuring the 'minor' states plus NSW and QLD Country. Would really like to see a team from the Sydney and Brisbane subbies comps as well.

Be great if televised as I would watch that

 

[liquor box]

How do you propose we do that? The games been in a 'consolidate /survive point' for the past decade.

Expanding Super AU with new privately owned teams would cost the unions nothing. [Edits]

True, unless you include the cost of losing players they have developed and supported for their career.

Privately owned teams can be a good thing, but not if a new team comes in and destroys other teams by taking their best players.

Where would the Tahs be if someone bought their best 4 players? They would have precisely no chance of winning a game. If they came in and bought the 4 best players at the Reds, you would destroy the teams chances of winning, supporter base etc.

I wonder if money could come into the game by offering shares in teams to members/supporters. It would provide a cash injection and also allow the fans to feel more involved.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

True, unless you include the cost of losing players they have developed and supported for their career.

Privately owned teams can be a good thing, but not if a new team comes in and destroys other teams by taking their best players.

Where would the Tahs be if someone bought their best 4 players? They would have precisely no chance of winning a game. If they came in and bought the 4 best players at the Reds, you would destroy the teams chances of winning, supporter base etc.

I wonder if money could come into the game by offering shares in teams to members/supporters. It would provide a cash injection and also allow the fans to feel more involved.

I think they're will need to be some restrictions in terms of domestic recruitment to start. Things like only returning OS Aus players and internationals while in organisation established its own development pathways. There's plenty of OS Aus players to fill more teams. And even more foreign qualified player to supplement them. Give them the goal for the first say 5 seasons while their systems are being established free reign on recruiting internationally for competitiveness and not Wallabies selection.

 

[formerflanker]

An interesting and relevant article in today's Telegraph by Phil Rothfield.
He explains in detail how Melbourne Storm and the Penrith Panthers are proving that smart junior development is even more valuable than the Sydney Roosters’ chequebook.
In summary - pathways and patience trumps multi-million dollar contracts.
Rugby is already doing a lot of good in this area e.g. Gen Blue, Junior Wallabies but the success of league clubs indicate even more can be done at the grass roots rugby level. I know many Shute Shield clubs have formed links with schools and suburban clubs and I'd like to see that as a conscious, RA-supported policy.

 

[wamberal]

An interesting and relevant article in today's Telegraph by Phil Rothfield.
He explains in detail how Melbourne Storm and the Penrith Panthers are proving that smart junior development is even more valuable than the Sydney Roosters’ chequebook.
In summary - pathways and patience trumps multi-million dollar contracts.

League pathways start at an unconscionably young age. I know its a small sample, but I knew a kid who was already "signed up" at the age of 10. He had decided that he was going to be a pro league player. But I would be certain that a lot of kids (and their parents) are totally on board the train from the early teens. And there would be money involved, for sure.

I read something the other day about the Panthers "warehousing" enough kids for three Jersey Flegg squads.

Is this "smart" junior development? Would we go down this path (on the heroic assumption that we could afford to?)

 

[Derpus]

League pathways start at an unconscionably young age. I know its a small sample, but I knew a kid who was already "signed up" at the age of 10. He had decided that he was going to be a pro league player. But I would be certain that a lot of kids (and their parents) are totally on board the train from the early teens. And there would be money involved, for sure.

I read something the other day about the Panthers "warehousing" enough kids for three Jersey Flegg squads.

Is this "smart" junior development? Would we go down this path (on the heroic assumption that we could afford to?)

I think I posted this in relation to poaching school children from other countries but inducing children into entering contracts is absolutely inappropriate even if it's not technically binding.

 

[sendit]

An interesting and relevant article in today's Telegraph by Phil Rothfield.
He explains in detail how Melbourne Storm and the Penrith Panthers are proving that smart junior development is even more valuable than the Sydney Roosters’ chequebook.
In summary - pathways and patience trumps multi-million dollar contracts.
Rugby is already doing a lot of good in this area e.g. Gen Blue, Junior Wallabies but the success of league clubs indicate even more can be done at the grass roots rugby level. I know many Shute Shield clubs have formed links with schools and suburban clubs and I'd like to see that as a conscious, RA-supported policy.

Have no idea why he's talking about Storm junior development, its atrocious. They've been a stable club for 20 something years now and hardly any victorians have made the NRL. Both Force and Rebels have done better

 

[Braveheart81]

Have no idea why he's talking about Storm junior development, its atrocious. They've been a stable club for 20 something years now and hardly any victorians have made the NRL. Both Force and Rebels have done better

Presumably it's referring to juniors in Brisbane and the Sunshine Coast that are within their feeder team regions.

Now they may do little to actually develop those juniors but they are pretty great at working out which ones to sign and keep within their club.

 

[Set piece magic]

What should Australian Rugby do once its immediate financial position recovers with its funding priorities? What do people here think is the long term third tier solution?

WIth the NRC scrapped and club rugby lumped into stan sport, will club land go back to being the development pathway?
IMO Both have their advantages and disadvantages. The NRC had no community support and cost a lot of money, even on a reduced cost basis. But ultimately it was somewhat successful in developing talented players and also letting players reach their potential - at least in QLD with the current crop of Reds- in NSW it appears to have been ignored. It's now bitten the dust, so time to move on.

Club rugby has strong community support but has at times lacked the high performance polish, at least from what I see. It's ridden with internal politics but has inarguably brought more players into the game and is actually thriving in some parts.

I'd like to see club rugby given additional funding once Rugby AU's perilous financial position recovers somewhat, but with caveats and priorities. I think we need clubs going into schools to recruit kids when they leave high school, almost being allocated feeder schools to recruit from. There's a lot of rugby players in these schools who drop out of the system after. Having a school liaison is something Rugby AU should consider funding at clubs right across the country. Also, covering costs for some higher performance operations at the higher club level should be considered.

At the elite level, clearly the first thing we need is to make the game a profitable exercise. A salary cap of $5.5m per club is only about 60% of the NRL's salary cap which is causing us to lose the battle for talent. I hate to be an advocate for higher wages but it has to be a priority if we get some extra money. Back in the day you could conclusively say that our stars were considerably overpaid. Now, both our stars and our clubs are underpaid

How do we get the extra cash? Increased attendances, hopefully. Higher TV ratings and an increased broadcast deal in 3 years time with Stan? Perhaps Twiggy inc and others can be persuaded to cover things like club rugby funding in WA - although he already has, to be knowledge. Should private equity be considered? It would provide the short term cash increase we need to invest, but at the same time it would also see the investors entitled to more of the profit.

Many things to consider, imo, for Hamish McLennan, now that the short term future of the game is secured

 

[sendit]

I'd like to see club rugby given additional funding once Rugby AU's perilous financial position recovers somewhat, but with caveats and priorities. I think we need clubs going into schools to recruit kids when they leave high school, almost being allocated feeder schools to recruit from. There's a lot of rugby players in these schools who drop out of the system after. Having a school liaison is something Rugby AU should consider funding at clubs right across the country. Also, covering costs for some higher performance operations at the higher club level should be considered.

Shute Clubs need to lift their juniors commitment if they want to be taken seriously as THE development pathway. Junior union rep teams are little more than a community club that just so happens to have the best players from the area in it. There's little attempt to develop the players. Anecdotally it seems like clubs pretty much rely on geography or mates of mates to recruit players

Compare what Harold Matthews and SG Ball cup squads go through and its laughable

 

[Rugbynutter39]

What should Australian Rugby do once its immediate financial position recovers with its funding priorities? What do people here think is the long term third tier solution?

WIth the NRC scrapped and club rugby lumped into stan sport, will club land go back to being the development pathway?
IMO Both have their advantages and disadvantages. The NRC had no community support and cost a lot of money, even on a reduced cost basis. But ultimately it was somewhat successful in developing talented players and also letting players reach their potential - at least in QLD with the current crop of Reds- in NSW it appears to have been ignored. It's now bitten the dust, so time to move on.

Club rugby has strong community support but has at times lacked the high performance polish, at least from what I see. It's ridden with internal politics but has inarguably brought more players into the game and is actually thriving in some parts.

I'd like to see club rugby given additional funding once Rugby AU's perilous financial position recovers somewhat, but with caveats and priorities. I think we need clubs going into schools to recruit kids when they leave high school, almost being allocated feeder schools to recruit from. There's a lot of rugby players in these schools who drop out of the system after. Having a school liaison is something Rugby AU should consider funding at clubs right across the country. Also, covering costs for some higher performance operations at the higher club level should be considered.

At the elite level, clearly the first thing we need is to make the game a profitable exercise. A salary cap of $5.5m per club is only about 60% of the NRL's salary cap which is causing us to lose the battle for talent. I hate to be an advocate for higher wages but it has to be a priority if we get some extra money. Back in the day you could conclusively say that our stars were considerably overpaid. Now, both our stars and our clubs are underpaid

How do we get the extra cash? Increased attendances, hopefully. Higher TV ratings and an increased broadcast deal in 3 years time with Stan? Perhaps Twiggy inc and others can be persuaded to cover things like club rugby funding in WA - although he already has, to be knowledge. Should private equity be considered? It would provide the short term cash increase we need to invest, but at the same time it would also see the investors entitled to more of the profit.

Many things to consider, imo, for Hamish McLennan, now that the short term future of the game is secured

To me the world league proposed and funding it would have brought is example of something that could be a game changer. As in short we need products that would promote higher viewership etc. The fact our salary cap is 60% of NRL salary cap is as you say a concern but only if we improve the product and fan/broadcaster appeal can we address it.

To improve the product we need investment and strategic investment (likely from private equity with the sort of ambitious proposals like the world league before it fell by the wayside because NH countries not on board).