Australian Rugby / RA
- Thread starter Dave Beat
- Start date
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
Don't leave out Jesse Mogg in those first two Bledisloes in 2013 ;-)
EDIT: he was however debuted by Deans off the bench in the 3rd Lions test. Link was the first and last to start him though..
'Tattsy'TaylorFan1
Ward Prentice (10)
NZ teams all collaborate and I believe that they have a golden rule stating that every player 1-15 (especially the tight five) must be able to catch pass to a really high standard so that any turnover ball can be turned into a try from anywhere on the field. It's genius the way that they coach rugby to be honest. They know that they are not a country of big men, like South Africans for example, therefore to win they need to play the idea of 'fast beats slow' primarily through amazing catch pass.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
Read an article today about the NRL chairman making a mess of their latest debacle.
The cricket board have had a shocker of a year.
The soccer mob have made a hash of their women’s coaching imbroglio
Saw a bit on country grassroots AFL dying,and HQ are just interested observers.....
Not easy administering sports in Oz!
The cricket board have had a shocker of a year.
The soccer mob have made a hash of their women’s coaching imbroglio
Saw a bit on country grassroots AFL dying,and HQ are just interested observers.....
Not easy administering sports in Oz!
Bandar
Bob Loudon (25)
The ABC has been very pro AFL & Soccer and pays less attention to Rugby than the commercial news outlets.
You only have to look on their rugby union news webpage to see the complete lack of reporting.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/sport/rugbyunion/
They could change that 'lack of visibility' by a bit of reporting on the actual matches...
You only have to look on their rugby union news webpage to see the complete lack of reporting.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/sport/rugbyunion/
They could change that 'lack of visibility' by a bit of reporting on the actual matches...
John S
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Funny you say that.... :
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02...c81Yb_4mkToWbMoNLKnLokom7qA21aMfhxmcxpSM4U_YM
ABC Just put out a report on that exact thing.
Bandar
Bob Loudon (25)
Meh, it's Richard Hinds. He's never been a fan of rugby, and his general cynicism grates me to the extent I don't read, listen or watch him at all really. He's a man who can find a negative in anything and everything.
The evidence of week one was enough to suggest the stocks haven't fallen that far - a packed Brookvale with a decent TV audience. At very least it's about the same as it's been the last few years, though clearly a fair way from where things once were.
.
The evidence of week one was enough to suggest the stocks haven't fallen that far - a packed Brookvale with a decent TV audience. At very least it's about the same as it's been the last few years, though clearly a fair way from where things once were.
.
John S
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Yep - due to being a Friday, my brain knocked off early, and I missed it
Jamie
Billy Sheehan (19)
Not sure if this is the right place to post this but interesting read...
Incoming Wallabies selector Michael O’Connor has outlined what pragmatic playmaker Quade Cooper must do to re-earn Wallabies selection.
“There are still areas in his game he needs work on and if he can improve those, well then he’ll be in the reckoning,” O’Connor said.
“I would be very surprised if Michael [Cheika] didn’t agree with that.
“At Test level though you can’t be throwing blind passes. You can’t be taking risks at the line.”
As vague as the statement is, there isn’t much at face value Cooper can take away from that and hopefully conversations behind closed doors reveal more to him. The message seems to be that Cooper must take fewer risks, not make better decisions and execute.
“You can’t be taking risks at the line” is the most concerning thing to hear in particular.
Any ball-player needs to play at the line in order to create. That is the only way to challenge defenders and open holes with a passing game. That is what Johnny Sexton does for Ireland. Joe Schmidt is designing plays to put Sexton in position to ball-play and take risks, albeit delicately calculated, at the line.
It is almost the entire foundation of their attacking game – Sexton’s job is to create line breaks to win attacking field position, halfback Conor Murray’s job is to land the killer blows inside the 22.
Outside of that, you must have game-breaking athletes like Israel Folau or Stuart Hogg to break the line, who can shed tackles and do it all by oneself, something the 30-year-old Cooper isn’t going to do.
The Wallabies have struggled with this ‘early wide ball’ philosophy under Cheika, hoping that their athletes can make something happen by hopelessly spinning wide through the halves that do nothing but add more depth to the play by standing deep and shoveling deeper.
Trying to go around defences has only resulted in continually going backward for the Wallabies in recent years. The international game is so tight now with the advancement of defence, space is at a premium. You have to be smarter about how you create space in this age, which we have only really seen the Wallabies do in the Salta miracle game when the game plan ‘was thrown out the window’ at halftime against Argentina. They played direct and passed flat to runners hitting gaps and made a historic comeback that likely saved Cheika’s job. Israel Folau’s best plays for the Wallabies are now coming from running a hard line outside a pod, hitting a change-up ball flat at pace at the line, showing how it’s done.
Cooper should be encouraged to play at the line, and better yet, play should be designed to manufacture situations where the odds of him finding success are higher. You scheme the ‘where and when’, aim to create overlaps and personnel mismatches, live and die on him making the right read, review and learn from the mistakes, adjust and try again.
It’s not about taking fewer risks, it’s about minimising risk and putting odds in your favour for maximising reward, and actually, use his playmaking and game-changing talents. If Cooper is put in as another robotic distributor in Cheika’s system, it will do nothing to improve the Wallabies play.
We have seen him play a conservative ‘distributor’ role in the Wallabies before under Cheika. In a 2016 Bledisloe Cup match, in one of his last games against the All Blacks, Quade Cooper was given the start in Wellington by Cheika, with Bernard Foley moving to 12.
It was the most un-Quade test match seen and resulted in the Wallabies losing 29-9. He did not fire a shot the whole match, instead, going through the motions of programming Cheika’s pattern as a passer with his feet in cement blocks and a shovel in his hands.
He played his instructed role, took no risk and they went nowhere. He finished with a total of two running metres, passing 14 times and running four, although most of these carries were taking it to ground in the face of pressure. There are genuine concerns about his decision-making at times, but Cooper’s worst test matches aren’t always the result of taking obscene risks, it’s usually when the basics start to go wrong – dropping high balls in the backfield, kicking out on the full of the restart, which are execution errors.
Hopefully these throwaway comments by Michael O’Connor are meaningless air, but it’s all too familiar and illustrative of Australian Rugby’s inability to find and develop a new international flyhalf – they don’t know what to look for or how to use one, and certainly telling a flyhalf not to take risks at the line is scary advice for a team that finished with their worst attacking ar on record.
Incoming Wallabies selector Michael O’Connor has outlined what pragmatic playmaker Quade Cooper must do to re-earn Wallabies selection.
“There are still areas in his game he needs work on and if he can improve those, well then he’ll be in the reckoning,” O’Connor said.
“I would be very surprised if Michael [Cheika] didn’t agree with that.
–– ADVERTISEMENT ––
“At Test level though you can’t be throwing blind passes. You can’t be taking risks at the line.”
As vague as the statement is, there isn’t much at face value Cooper can take away from that and hopefully conversations behind closed doors reveal more to him. The message seems to be that Cooper must take fewer risks, not make better decisions and execute.
“You can’t be taking risks at the line” is the most concerning thing to hear in particular.
Any ball-player needs to play at the line in order to create. That is the only way to challenge defenders and open holes with a passing game. That is what Johnny Sexton does for Ireland. Joe Schmidt is designing plays to put Sexton in position to ball-play and take risks, albeit delicately calculated, at the line.
It is almost the entire foundation of their attacking game – Sexton’s job is to create line breaks to win attacking field position, halfback Conor Murray’s job is to land the killer blows inside the 22.
Outside of that, you must have game-breaking athletes like Israel Folau or Stuart Hogg to break the line, who can shed tackles and do it all by oneself, something the 30-year-old Cooper isn’t going to do.
The Wallabies have struggled with this ‘early wide ball’ philosophy under Cheika, hoping that their athletes can make something happen by hopelessly spinning wide through the halves that do nothing but add more depth to the play by standing deep and shoveling deeper.
Trying to go around defences has only resulted in continually going backward for the Wallabies in recent years. The international game is so tight now with the advancement of defence, space is at a premium. You have to be smarter about how you create space in this age, which we have only really seen the Wallabies do in the Salta miracle game when the game plan ‘was thrown out the window’ at halftime against Argentina. They played direct and passed flat to runners hitting gaps and made a historic comeback that likely saved Cheika’s job. Israel Folau’s best plays for the Wallabies are now coming from running a hard line outside a pod, hitting a change-up ball flat at pace at the line, showing how it’s done.
Cooper should be encouraged to play at the line, and better yet, play should be designed to manufacture situations where the odds of him finding success are higher. You scheme the ‘where and when’, aim to create overlaps and personnel mismatches, live and die on him making the right read, review and learn from the mistakes, adjust and try again.
It’s not about taking fewer risks, it’s about minimising risk and putting odds in your favour for maximising reward, and actually, use his playmaking and game-changing talents. If Cooper is put in as another robotic distributor in Cheika’s system, it will do nothing to improve the Wallabies play.
We have seen him play a conservative ‘distributor’ role in the Wallabies before under Cheika. In a 2016 Bledisloe Cup match, in one of his last games against the All Blacks, Quade Cooper was given the start in Wellington by Cheika, with Bernard Foley moving to 12.
It was the most un-Quade test match seen and resulted in the Wallabies losing 29-9. He did not fire a shot the whole match, instead, going through the motions of programming Cheika’s pattern as a passer with his feet in cement blocks and a shovel in his hands.
He played his instructed role, took no risk and they went nowhere. He finished with a total of two running metres, passing 14 times and running four, although most of these carries were taking it to ground in the face of pressure. There are genuine concerns about his decision-making at times, but Cooper’s worst test matches aren’t always the result of taking obscene risks, it’s usually when the basics start to go wrong – dropping high balls in the backfield, kicking out on the full of the restart, which are execution errors.
Hopefully these throwaway comments by Michael O’Connor are meaningless air, but it’s all too familiar and illustrative of Australian Rugby’s inability to find and develop a new international flyhalf – they don’t know what to look for or how to use one, and certainly telling a flyhalf not to take risks at the line is scary advice for a team that finished with their worst attacking ar on record.
Derpus
Nathan Sharpe (72)
No risk no reward, as they say.
How boring would rugby be if no 10s ever took a risk.
Not sure i agree on the analysis of Sexton though. Ireland are the least creative side in the top 10. They are all about discipline and game management. Not sure why you wouldn't use any number of better examples like Barrett, Ford etc.
How boring would rugby be if no 10s ever took a risk.
Not sure i agree on the analysis of Sexton though. Ireland are the least creative side in the top 10. They are all about discipline and game management. Not sure why you wouldn't use any number of better examples like Barrett, Ford etc.
Cooper has to do what works for him in 2019. He's not the same player he was in 2011. He doesn't have the same confidence in his running game and even when he was at his peak, what worked more frequently in Super Rugby didn't work at test level. Mistakes were punished more regularly and tries were harder to come by.
This seems to be making a mountain out of a molehill though. The author of this piece has taken a single line and written an article about it making a whole load of assumptions.
This seems to be making a mountain out of a molehill though. The author of this piece has taken a single line and written an article about it making a whole load of assumptions.
Jamie
Billy Sheehan (19)
Indeed, really hoping for QC (Quade Cooper) to hit his stride and challenge the 10 jersey.
Although the Irish are a great team they are certainly not the best side in the world IMO and actually quite boring to watch, we need variety across the board and I would rather have more of QC (Quade Cooper) and less of Sexton
Although the Irish are a great team they are certainly not the best side in the world IMO and actually quite boring to watch, we need variety across the board and I would rather have more of QC (Quade Cooper) and less of Sexton
Froggy
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
I guess now that he's back in Super rugby the whole Quade debate re-opens, so here goes. As good as he is, his defence, in particular his penchant to go high all the time, rules him out for me. It was his biggest weakness two years ago, and he has shown in his first match back in Super rugby that he has no intention of changing it, he just doesn't care. He was penalised for a high tackle against the Brumbies.
Look, I have no doubt that when in form he is a better 10 than Foley, he sets his supports up better, dictates play better, kicks better, is more creative, is about equal as an attacking runner and they are both soft defenders but can be hidden, as can most 10's. However, the evidence suggest that if you select Quade you have a 50% chance of spending at least 10 minutes with 14 men, he doesn't seem to have any inclination to change that, and I just don't believe you can afford that. And that's not state bias, I have the same opinion of Tolu Latu (for different offences obviously).
Look, I have no doubt that when in form he is a better 10 than Foley, he sets his supports up better, dictates play better, kicks better, is more creative, is about equal as an attacking runner and they are both soft defenders but can be hidden, as can most 10's. However, the evidence suggest that if you select Quade you have a 50% chance of spending at least 10 minutes with 14 men, he doesn't seem to have any inclination to change that, and I just don't believe you can afford that. And that's not state bias, I have the same opinion of Tolu Latu (for different offences obviously).
Adam84
Rod McCall (65)
Foley is a shadow of what he was at the 2011 RWC, however, in saying that I would take Foleys low percentage plays over Quade's high percentage plays at test level. I watched a lot of Quade during club rugby this season, and I hate to say as exciting as it was to have him playing club rugby, I feel even at club level his decision making was at times rather questionable. Souths lost the Semi-final in what can only be explained as poor game management from Quade.
I feel guys like Quade, is a bit like the modern day Campese/Ella, very enigmatic in attack and probably better suited to a less structure version of rugby then todays game.
Moving forward I would like to see more of Mack Mason at the Tahs, and I think the Reds have a pretty good young fly-half in Hamish Stewart. They're the two who should be focussed on for the 2023 RWC at this stage.
I feel guys like Quade, is a bit like the modern day Campese/Ella, very enigmatic in attack and probably better suited to a less structure version of rugby then todays game.
Moving forward I would like to see more of Mack Mason at the Tahs, and I think the Reds have a pretty good young fly-half in Hamish Stewart. They're the two who should be focussed on for the 2023 RWC at this stage.