Killer
Cyril Towers (30)
From: David Vaux
To: Community Affairs, Committee (SEN)
Subject: Senate Affairs Enquiry into the Future of Rugby Union in Australia
Date: Thursday, 19 October 2017 12:45:42 PM
19 October 2017
The Chairman
Community Affairs References Committee
Senator Rachel Siewert
Via email : community.affairs.sen@aph.gov.au
Dear Senator,
Senate Community Affairs References Committee
Third Public Hearing for the Future of Rugby Union in Australia
1. My name is David Vaux and I have been a director of RugbyWA (“RWA”) since June
2011.
2. Whilst a West Australian, who learnt rugby at school in Perth and played
subsequently at University of WA, I have, since 1981, lived in Sydney. I played with
Sydney University and Waverley Rugby Club until 1995 when I retired from playing.
I have since served on the Sydney University Football Club Foundation.
3. My role as a director of RWA is to be a point of local contact between the ARU
board and executive and the RWA board and executive. I have known members of
the ARU board including Mr Cameron Clyne, Chairman, Mr Bill Pulver, CEO, and
directors Mr John Eales and Mr Brett Robinson for some years.
4. In Mr Clyne’s opening statement, made on public record to the Committee on 16th
October 2017, Mr Clyne makes a number of false assertions.
5. I am compelled to correct Mr Clyne’s evidence, in order that the Committee is not
misled.
6. Mr Clyne’s version of what he said to me on the telephone on Sunday 20th August
2017 which he outlined to the Committee in his opening evidence , detailed below,
is substantially untrue:
Mr Clyne…“It has been falsely claimed during this enquiry that the ARU had made
an offer to reinstate the Western Force if RugbyWA or Mr Forest would pay a sum
of $70m to the ARU. This is a complete misrepresentation of what transpired, both
in my telephone conversation with Mr Vaux and in the meeting with Mr Forest and
his representatives in Adelaide.
There was never a point in either conversation that a specific financial sum was
discussed in relation to reversing the ARU board’s decision to remove the Western
Force. In fact, rather than a specific figure, it was pointed out that financial support
would need to be open ended, as a major element would be compensation for all
teams, and broadcasters, given the inferior nature and higher cost of a 16 team
competition.
When pressed for a figure, I said it would likely exceed $100m, given the
complexity involved, and even then, it was no guarantee our members, SANZAR or
broadcasters would support it. That is the only figure ever raised, and it certainly
was not a commitment, but merely an estimate, and certainly nothing was offered
that came close.”
7. The above statements by Mr Clyne do not accord with what he said to me, my
notes and contemporaneous emails.
8. I have a very clear recollection of our telephone conversation. At the time I was
visiting my daughter on the Sunshine Coast and I had to excuse myself from a small
gathering to take the call from Mr Clyne. I also took some notes of key points. The
following is a summary of my telephone conversation with Mr Clyne and
subsequent events :
a) Mr Clyne called at 2.22pm on Sunday 20 August 2017 and said to me that the
process of determining an Australian team to drop from the Super Rugby
Competition had been very, very difficult for him, and that he was personally
very hurt by media commentary and comments by Andrew Forest about his
role and the ARU’s approach. He had been warned not to do business with Mr
Forest and told not to trust him. However, notwithstanding these feelings, he
had been instructed by his board to make a “Without Prejudice” proposal. He
said that the ARU would retain the Western Force in the Super Rugby
Competition on the following conditions :
(i) Mr Forest would underwrite the Western Force’s financial position for
the remaining 3 years of the Broadcasting Agreements, and an
additional 5 years which would arise from the next cycle of Broadcasting
Agreements;
(ii) The Western Force would receive equal funding from the ARU to the
other 4 Australian Super Rugby teams;
(iii) To compensate the ARU for having to continue to provide an ongoing
$6m contribution to the Western Force, Mr Forest would provide
funding to the ARU for grass roots rugby for $6m a year over the 3 + 5
year period, $48m in total;
(iv) Mr Forest would provide SANZAR compensation for the additional costs
of going from 15 to 16 teams, namely $20m; and
(v) If this proposal was agreed to, then Mr Clyne and the rest of the ARU
board would resign and a new board would appoint the next CEO.
I asked Mr Clyne to clarify why he felt the 8 year period was appropriate. He said
that if the Western Force were to be retained, then it would naturally be a
consequence that they would be retained for the next broadcasting cycle as well. I
queried with Mr Clyne, the commerciality of including the additional 5 years, as it
was highly likely that the structure and funding of the Super Rugby Competition
would be materially different, hence, due to this uncertainty, it was an
unreasonable demand. He was however adamant about the 8 year period.
I informed Mr Clyne that I would present his proposal to representatives of Mr
Forest and also to the RWA Chairman, Mr Tony Howarth. Our call concluded at
2.49pm.
I returned to my gathering and informed them that I needed to be excused to
make some further calls, as I had just been speaking to Mr Clyne, and I wanted to
pass onto my West Australian colleagues details of a proposal he had made. I
expressed hope that a settlement might be possible.
9. During the course of the afternoon, I made phone calls to John Welborn, Mr
Forest’s key representative, Mark Sinderberry, CEO of RWA, Tony Howarth,
Chairman RWA and Geoff Stooke, ex-ARU director and adviser to RWA and Mr
Forest.
10. I sent a text to Mr Clyne at 6.04pm saying “Spoken to John who will discuss with
Andrew. Will get back to you as soon as possible. Regards, David”.
11. At 7.39pm that night I received an email from John Welborn confirming details of
the discussion I had with Mr Clyne. A copy of Mr Welborn’s email which is a true
and accurate summary of my conversation with Mr Clyne is set out below.
12. I subsequently was informed that a meeting had been arranged in Adelaide for
Tuesday 22nd August 2017 between Andrew Forest, John Welborn, Geoff Stooke
and from the ARU, Cameron Clyne, John Eales and Brett Robinson.
13. On Tuesday 22nd August 2017 at 7.06am I sent a text to Mr Clyne as follows :
“I truly hope that today’s meeting is successful. In the best interests of Australian
Rugby I’d like to suggest the following. Firstly ask AF to confirm that he will
underwrite the financial security of the WF for the next 3 years and subject to
some
common sense safeguards, also for the next broadcasting cycle. Secondly instead
of
asking for $m to compensate the ARU which will be inflammatory I would simply
thank him for his offer to provide support for Australian rugby and ask him what he
has in mind. This is an unique opportunity to involve a billionaire offering help. If
he
asks for your ideas I suggest you put to him a discrete project such as the creation
of
an Australian Coaching Foundation which could be under the ARU with an
independent board of expert trustees. The mission of the ACF is to become the
global leader in RU coaching. The mandate is to improve coaching at both the
community and elite levels for men and women’s 15’s, 7’s and indigenous rugby
across Australia. The programs would be developed in collaboration with the ARU
and member Unions and associates. The mantra would be that better coaches
make
better players. The ACF would be a very substantial, long term project. Obviously
the costing would need to be determined, but if as part of an agreement to retain
the Force, AF publicly commits to back the project then it will happen. If you feel
you need a minimum $ figure to publicly disclose as part of a settlement I’d ask him
for an amount. I would expect the commitment would be either a lump sum or
over
say 10 years. The establishment of the ACF will save the ARU and the Super Rugby unions
millions and will achieve lasting performance and participation benefits. Yours in
Rugby, David”
I did not receive a reply from Mr Clyne.
14. It was with great dismay that I later heard that the Adelaide meeting was a
complete failure.
15. I subsequently sent a text to Mr Clyne, Mr Eales and Mr Robinson at 9.38pm on
22nd August as follows :
“On Sunday Cameron put to me a proposal for 5 teams to be retained if AF backed
the WF financially and for AF to donate $48m to the ARU and compensation for so
called additional costs for SANZAR. Today you have rejected an Offer which would
have addressed the first two aspects of Cameron’s proposal. The compensation
point is highly debateable. To have turned your backs on AF’s offer is an appalling
mistake. How can you continue to think that 4 teams will somehow return the ARU
and Australian rugby to good health astounds me. To reject a $50m donation from
AF, a proven generous donor, and think that is in the best interests of Australian
rugby is a grave error. Are you sure that you are not now putting your own bias
and
hurt in the way of clear thinking. Please step back and review where things are,
West
Australia will fight on relentlessly. David”
16. Neither Mr Clyne, Mr Eales nor Mr Robinson responded to deny Mr Clyne had
made such an offer on behalf of the ARU or otherwise to correct any of the details
as set out in the above text.
17. I believe that my recollections above are a true and accurate account of the
telephone conversation I had with Mr Clyne and subsequent events.
Yours sincerely,
David Vaux
B.Juris (Hons), LL.B., MBA (London), FAICD
To: Community Affairs, Committee (SEN)
Subject: Senate Affairs Enquiry into the Future of Rugby Union in Australia
Date: Thursday, 19 October 2017 12:45:42 PM
19 October 2017
The Chairman
Community Affairs References Committee
Senator Rachel Siewert
Via email : community.affairs.sen@aph.gov.au
Dear Senator,
Senate Community Affairs References Committee
Third Public Hearing for the Future of Rugby Union in Australia
1. My name is David Vaux and I have been a director of RugbyWA (“RWA”) since June
2011.
2. Whilst a West Australian, who learnt rugby at school in Perth and played
subsequently at University of WA, I have, since 1981, lived in Sydney. I played with
Sydney University and Waverley Rugby Club until 1995 when I retired from playing.
I have since served on the Sydney University Football Club Foundation.
3. My role as a director of RWA is to be a point of local contact between the ARU
board and executive and the RWA board and executive. I have known members of
the ARU board including Mr Cameron Clyne, Chairman, Mr Bill Pulver, CEO, and
directors Mr John Eales and Mr Brett Robinson for some years.
4. In Mr Clyne’s opening statement, made on public record to the Committee on 16th
October 2017, Mr Clyne makes a number of false assertions.
5. I am compelled to correct Mr Clyne’s evidence, in order that the Committee is not
misled.
6. Mr Clyne’s version of what he said to me on the telephone on Sunday 20th August
2017 which he outlined to the Committee in his opening evidence , detailed below,
is substantially untrue:
Mr Clyne…“It has been falsely claimed during this enquiry that the ARU had made
an offer to reinstate the Western Force if RugbyWA or Mr Forest would pay a sum
of $70m to the ARU. This is a complete misrepresentation of what transpired, both
in my telephone conversation with Mr Vaux and in the meeting with Mr Forest and
his representatives in Adelaide.
There was never a point in either conversation that a specific financial sum was
discussed in relation to reversing the ARU board’s decision to remove the Western
Force. In fact, rather than a specific figure, it was pointed out that financial support
would need to be open ended, as a major element would be compensation for all
teams, and broadcasters, given the inferior nature and higher cost of a 16 team
competition.
When pressed for a figure, I said it would likely exceed $100m, given the
complexity involved, and even then, it was no guarantee our members, SANZAR or
broadcasters would support it. That is the only figure ever raised, and it certainly
was not a commitment, but merely an estimate, and certainly nothing was offered
that came close.”
7. The above statements by Mr Clyne do not accord with what he said to me, my
notes and contemporaneous emails.
8. I have a very clear recollection of our telephone conversation. At the time I was
visiting my daughter on the Sunshine Coast and I had to excuse myself from a small
gathering to take the call from Mr Clyne. I also took some notes of key points. The
following is a summary of my telephone conversation with Mr Clyne and
subsequent events :
a) Mr Clyne called at 2.22pm on Sunday 20 August 2017 and said to me that the
process of determining an Australian team to drop from the Super Rugby
Competition had been very, very difficult for him, and that he was personally
very hurt by media commentary and comments by Andrew Forest about his
role and the ARU’s approach. He had been warned not to do business with Mr
Forest and told not to trust him. However, notwithstanding these feelings, he
had been instructed by his board to make a “Without Prejudice” proposal. He
said that the ARU would retain the Western Force in the Super Rugby
Competition on the following conditions :
(i) Mr Forest would underwrite the Western Force’s financial position for
the remaining 3 years of the Broadcasting Agreements, and an
additional 5 years which would arise from the next cycle of Broadcasting
Agreements;
(ii) The Western Force would receive equal funding from the ARU to the
other 4 Australian Super Rugby teams;
(iii) To compensate the ARU for having to continue to provide an ongoing
$6m contribution to the Western Force, Mr Forest would provide
funding to the ARU for grass roots rugby for $6m a year over the 3 + 5
year period, $48m in total;
(iv) Mr Forest would provide SANZAR compensation for the additional costs
of going from 15 to 16 teams, namely $20m; and
(v) If this proposal was agreed to, then Mr Clyne and the rest of the ARU
board would resign and a new board would appoint the next CEO.
I asked Mr Clyne to clarify why he felt the 8 year period was appropriate. He said
that if the Western Force were to be retained, then it would naturally be a
consequence that they would be retained for the next broadcasting cycle as well. I
queried with Mr Clyne, the commerciality of including the additional 5 years, as it
was highly likely that the structure and funding of the Super Rugby Competition
would be materially different, hence, due to this uncertainty, it was an
unreasonable demand. He was however adamant about the 8 year period.
I informed Mr Clyne that I would present his proposal to representatives of Mr
Forest and also to the RWA Chairman, Mr Tony Howarth. Our call concluded at
2.49pm.
I returned to my gathering and informed them that I needed to be excused to
make some further calls, as I had just been speaking to Mr Clyne, and I wanted to
pass onto my West Australian colleagues details of a proposal he had made. I
expressed hope that a settlement might be possible.
9. During the course of the afternoon, I made phone calls to John Welborn, Mr
Forest’s key representative, Mark Sinderberry, CEO of RWA, Tony Howarth,
Chairman RWA and Geoff Stooke, ex-ARU director and adviser to RWA and Mr
Forest.
10. I sent a text to Mr Clyne at 6.04pm saying “Spoken to John who will discuss with
Andrew. Will get back to you as soon as possible. Regards, David”.
11. At 7.39pm that night I received an email from John Welborn confirming details of
the discussion I had with Mr Clyne. A copy of Mr Welborn’s email which is a true
and accurate summary of my conversation with Mr Clyne is set out below.
12. I subsequently was informed that a meeting had been arranged in Adelaide for
Tuesday 22nd August 2017 between Andrew Forest, John Welborn, Geoff Stooke
and from the ARU, Cameron Clyne, John Eales and Brett Robinson.
13. On Tuesday 22nd August 2017 at 7.06am I sent a text to Mr Clyne as follows :
“I truly hope that today’s meeting is successful. In the best interests of Australian
Rugby I’d like to suggest the following. Firstly ask AF to confirm that he will
underwrite the financial security of the WF for the next 3 years and subject to
some
common sense safeguards, also for the next broadcasting cycle. Secondly instead
of
asking for $m to compensate the ARU which will be inflammatory I would simply
thank him for his offer to provide support for Australian rugby and ask him what he
has in mind. This is an unique opportunity to involve a billionaire offering help. If
he
asks for your ideas I suggest you put to him a discrete project such as the creation
of
an Australian Coaching Foundation which could be under the ARU with an
independent board of expert trustees. The mission of the ACF is to become the
global leader in RU coaching. The mandate is to improve coaching at both the
community and elite levels for men and women’s 15’s, 7’s and indigenous rugby
across Australia. The programs would be developed in collaboration with the ARU
and member Unions and associates. The mantra would be that better coaches
make
better players. The ACF would be a very substantial, long term project. Obviously
the costing would need to be determined, but if as part of an agreement to retain
the Force, AF publicly commits to back the project then it will happen. If you feel
you need a minimum $ figure to publicly disclose as part of a settlement I’d ask him
for an amount. I would expect the commitment would be either a lump sum or
over
say 10 years. The establishment of the ACF will save the ARU and the Super Rugby unions
millions and will achieve lasting performance and participation benefits. Yours in
Rugby, David”
I did not receive a reply from Mr Clyne.
14. It was with great dismay that I later heard that the Adelaide meeting was a
complete failure.
15. I subsequently sent a text to Mr Clyne, Mr Eales and Mr Robinson at 9.38pm on
22nd August as follows :
“On Sunday Cameron put to me a proposal for 5 teams to be retained if AF backed
the WF financially and for AF to donate $48m to the ARU and compensation for so
called additional costs for SANZAR. Today you have rejected an Offer which would
have addressed the first two aspects of Cameron’s proposal. The compensation
point is highly debateable. To have turned your backs on AF’s offer is an appalling
mistake. How can you continue to think that 4 teams will somehow return the ARU
and Australian rugby to good health astounds me. To reject a $50m donation from
AF, a proven generous donor, and think that is in the best interests of Australian
rugby is a grave error. Are you sure that you are not now putting your own bias
and
hurt in the way of clear thinking. Please step back and review where things are,
West
Australia will fight on relentlessly. David”
16. Neither Mr Clyne, Mr Eales nor Mr Robinson responded to deny Mr Clyne had
made such an offer on behalf of the ARU or otherwise to correct any of the details
as set out in the above text.
17. I believe that my recollections above are a true and accurate account of the
telephone conversation I had with Mr Clyne and subsequent events.
Yours sincerely,
David Vaux
B.Juris (Hons), LL.B., MBA (London), FAICD
