Australian Rugby / RA

[WorkingClassRugger]

It's damning that the response to Edmed playing NPC by Shute Shield clubs is to reflexively panic over their place in the rugby pecking order rather than evaluating ways to raise the standard of the Shute Shield comp.

Rugby seems to be filled with this sort of provincialism even down to the private schools that play less than 10 games a year but refuse to allow their players to participate in club comps.

The only conceivable way to increase the standard of the Shute Shield or any premier club competition is money. More of it. But even if the Lions/RWC and Nations Championship manages to dig us out of our current situation and put us in a solid financial position I still don't want any of that money going to them.

The schools don't refuse to let kids play club rugby. I played club rugby as a kid with guys who also played schools rugby. Plenty of the League aligned kids in the private system also play club/rep League outside of school. I played schools Rugby, League and club Rugby. An issue is overlap and loading. I wouldn't advise a kid to do what I did and play 3 games a week. And with trials it more like 12-14 games. Which is still not many games but still not only 10.

What we need to do is look at drawing in more kids to clubs, programs to upskill those kids and options around playing such as time/format to allow for as much choice and flexibility around schedules to allow for kids to still play competitive Rugby. Purist may hate it but I've always thought 10s is very underutilized particularly at the junior level. Personally, you could run a Friday night 10s comp with two 25 minute halves with teams of 10-12 kids.

 

[stillmissit]

I agree we shouldn't care, but RA is forced too. The reality is the clubs have a huge say in NSWRU and QRU (and the others), and given the loss of independent Super Rugby votes, their voting influence on RA is getting larger and larger.

Are the clubs getting more votes or are you suggesting that the clubs will fill the void? The Shute Sheild clubs aren't exactly flooded with players or money. Don't know about the rest of the country.
I suspect that RA view of grassroots are the major clubs in each state as they attract most interest.

 

[Reds Rick]

I think at the moment this is realistically the best third tier type comp that can be implemented at short notice and with minimal additional money spent.

I see on here and the roar a range of opinions either criticising or trying to improve it but for where we are at in aus rugby at the moment I think it’s important not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

The good being:
- that it prepares players for the step up to the next level
- it would take place in a vacuum for all the other oval ball sports so would have some clear air in broadcasting/marketing
- lastly over time could be scalable to get other Aus based (or Japan as the roar article alludes to) teams going

Also don’t agree with the general assumption that it will lack fan engagement, think a lot of people would be surprised if it’s done properly.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Are the clubs getting more votes or are you suggesting that the clubs will fill the void? The Shute Sheild clubs aren't exactly flooded with players or money. Don't know about the rest of the country.
I suspect that RA view of grassroots are the major clubs in each state as they attract most interest.

RA are accountable to their members.

Under RA constitution, Rebels, Tahs and Brumbies don't get a vote any more, the number of votes has reduced, so everyone with a vote now has a bigger influence including the state member unions.

The clubs have a significant influence on NSWRU and QRU, including how they vote and hence now have more influence at RA general meeting level. If RA see grass roots as being the Premier clubs, that's because that's how their member unions (including NSWRU and QRU) want it

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I think at the moment this is realistically the best third tier type comp that can be implemented at short notice and with minimal additional money spent.

I see on here and the roar a range of opinions either criticising or trying to improve it but for where we are at in aus rugby at the moment I think it’s important not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

The good being:
- that it prepares players for the step up to the next level
- it would take place in a vacuum for all the other oval ball sports so would have some clear air in broadcasting/marketing
- lastly over time could be scalable to get other Aus based (or Japan as the roar article alludes to) teams going

Also don’t agree with the general assumption that it will lack fan engagement, think a lot of people would be surprised if it’s done properly.

This model can have the most IMO.

People support the Brumbs, Tahs, Reds and Force already and know who they are if you are a none Rugby fan. We would have zero engagment if they try and re launch some shitty side like the Ballymore Tornados, North Harbour Rays etc.. people gave it ago but you didn't really give a shit.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

This model can have the most IMO.

People support the Brumbs, Tahs, Reds and Force already and know who they are if you are a none Rugby fan. We would have zero engagment if they try and re launch some shitty side like the Ballymore Tornados, North Harbour Rays etc.. people gave it ago but you didn't really give a shit.

Doesn't help when you don't promote any of those teams or the competition in which they competed in. Will be largely the same in this instance if RA opts to do the same. People will note money but this will be post Lions. Things on the financial side will be less perilous and we should have a better idea on what the future value and income from the Nations Championship will look like. As well as the RWC. So promoting the damned thing should be something they have down as a priority. I still think a Sydney and Brisbane XV featuring non-contracted players would be a solid inclusion. Talent ID isn't perfect and this would be a good way of giving outliers their shot. And considering Sydney and Brisbane account for the lions share of talent production in Australia it wouldn't hurt. Nor would it add to the overall expense of the competition. Players, coaches, physios etc could be sourced from the existing pool of clubs in both competitions. You don't need to accommodate players as they live locally. May be an extra round or 2 of airfares/accommodation.

 

[Tomikin]

Feel like iv'e been shouting this for years now.

Don't create new sides that cost money we will never recover and have zero fan interest. We have the infrastructure and administration now. Get them working more.

It maintains the Club system and provides a goal for the best 5-10 from Clubland to get a trial. Wallabies can get back to fitness or step back to stay fit and the others continue to develop their games and build cohesion for the following season.

Doesn't get in the way of any international trips or fixtures sides may arrange as well.

ITM Cup sides might be the guys that get a little shitty about it although I think they have plenty to fill the spots.

I like the idea too, and you know if its successful it can grow.. but more top flight rugby, bit of 6 nations feel about it and play some more games

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I like the idea too, and you know if its successful it can grow.. but more top flight rugby, bit of 6 nations feel about it and play some more games

And the articles suggests that there the opportunity for Japanese involvement in the future which given the regular cross over that's been occurring between our clubs and Japanese clubs for some time now it would be an interesting option to give our guys more varied games going forward in something more structured.

 

[Jets]

The only conceivable way to increase the standard of the Shute Shield or any premier club competition is money. More of it. But even if the Lions/RWC and Nations Championship manages to dig us out of our current situation and put us in a solid financial position I still don't want any of that money going to them.

The schools don't refuse to let kids play club rugby. I played club rugby as a kid with guys who also played schools rugby. Plenty of the League aligned kids in the private system also play club/rep League outside of school. I played schools Rugby, League and club Rugby. An issue is overlap and loading. I wouldn't advise a kid to do what I did and play 3 games a week. And with trials it more like 12-14 games. Which is still not many games but still not only 10.

What we need to do is look at drawing in more kids to clubs, programs to upskill those kids and options around playing such as time/format to allow for as much choice and flexibility around schedules to allow for kids to still play competitive Rugby. Purist may hate it but I've always thought 10s is very underutilized particularly at the junior level. Personally, you could run a Friday night 10s comp with two 25 minute halves with teams of 10-12 kids.

Plenty do. Most schools in Brisbane GPS block them playing because they want them at 100% as winning the rugby premiership is good PR. BSHS is probably the outlier here.

In QLD the pathway to rep rugby for most GPS and AIC schools is through the U18 rep program as the schools don't let players trial for QLD Schoolboys. As a result QLD schools will never be competitive with NSW. The irony being they players seem to be allowed to play for QLD schoolboy league, mostly due to arrangements with League clubs paying the fees.

 

[JRugby2]

Plenty do. Most schools in Brisbane GPS block them playing because they want them at 100% as winning the rugby premiership is good PR. BSHS is probably the outlier here.

In QLD the pathway to rep rugby for most GPS and AIC schools is through the U18 rep program as the schools don't let players trial for QLD Schoolboys. As a result QLD schools will never be competitive with NSW. The irony being they players seem to be allowed to play for QLD schoolboy league, mostly due to arrangements with League clubs paying the fees.

I think the introduction of the Aus u18s and super u19s has had a larger impact on the old QLD Schools model, as well as the timing of the GPS season moving to term 3 a decade ago.

Most AIC school (if not all of them) still allow their students to play in this competition. Team lists have a lot of GPS schools in there as well: https://schoolsrugby.com.au/boys-xvs-team-lists/

 

[Jets]

2 GPS schools, BSHS and IGS. Not all AIC schools let kids go, State Champs clash with comp weekend and impacts AIC season. Could be an easy fix by having bye round in AIC for the State Champs. A large number of good AIC kids are picked up by AIC schools at 15 too so that also has an impact.

 

[Ignoto]

Honestly, I have no problem with kids who play rugby at school not playing club rugby. I'm a big believer in making sure our kids are exposed to a wide range of sports particularly when you think of the mental toll playing one sport does.

There's countless stories of burnt out it causes and you could ultimately lose some quality young players.

If we're just look at GPS kids, I'd much rather see them Row or Swim in Terms 4/1, spend 2/3 doing Rugby and even 3/4 doing Waterpolo/Athletics enjoying being a kid. I know Rowing isn't available to the AIC etc schools, but I cant' see why a similar model couldn't be used.

 

[stillmissit]

I still think a Sydney and Brisbane XV featuring non-contracted players would be a solid inclusion.

This makes a sensible inclusion and similar for Perth, Melbourne and unlikely Adelaide. The travel to Perth is an issue but if the cities support it they may pay fares and accommodation for away matches.

 

[stillmissit]

think of the mental toll playing one sport does

Also the mental issues playing sport fixes.

 

[Tazzmania]

This makes a sensible inclusion and similar for Perth, Melbourne and unlikely Adelaide. The travel to Perth is an issue but if the cities support it they may pay fares and accommodation for away matches.

Not really an issue, as the U16 and U19 have been doing it for the past three years (travel to Perth, that is for the two home Western Force fixtures). As those matches also take place in October each year, I suspect it makes sense to possibly just piggy bank the fixtures.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Doran's article today suggests Schmidt and Mike Cron are unlikely to continue past the Lions tour next year.

Probably means one of the Super Rugby coaches taking over (despite Christie's chaos-loving-journo attempt to drum up support for Cheika).

 

[stillmissit]

Not a fan of Cheika but could take us through to RWC - who else would be in the Aus mix?

 

[Strewthcobber]

Not a fan of Cheika but could take us through to RWC - who else would be in the Aus mix?

Kiss would be front runner I would think. Cheika only signed for 24/25 season so as it stands would be available

 

[stillmissit]

I would like Kiss to be a long term Wallaby coach but I am wondering if Cheika could do a smash and grab at RWC.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Is he? We have a landscape of domestic coaches with no titles behind any of them. Kiss could go out this year and win it all with their squad and shoot ahead of everyone but right now would there be a standout candidate? If DM made the Tahs look coherent it would be an impressive effort also.

I hope the powers above are already looking into this and have reached out to some potential candidates if it is a potential post Lions appointment.