Australia vs South Africa 8th September

[Joe Blow]

To'omua was excellent. KB (Kurtley Beale) and the combination not so much.

 

[Bobby Sands]

I’m not sure how you get that.
Kurtley was horrible at 10. He ran side ways taking away space from his runners and generally was rushed into poor options. He’s better one out or at full back. To'omua on the other hand was solid in defense and attack and contributed a lot.
What we learned was that Foley is a much better 10 than KB (Kurtley Beale) right now. Given time Kurtley may improve. We also were reminded that To'omua is test class and a good bloke to have on the pitch. Problem is he doesn’t offer the same attacking fire power as KB (Kurtley Beale) at 12.

I would guess that Cheika will run the same inside backs again next week to give it a chance.

I am looking at them as a pairing, not as individual skillsets. Its a better pairing, collective output, and only their first run.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Pretty unimpressed with the 10/12 combo, but very satisfied with To'omua at 12. I have always been a proponent of him at inside centre, though. We can play Foley at 10 if there are good kickers and tacklers alongside him and in To'omua that's the case. Maybe KB (Kurtley Beale) should go back to playing on the wing like in the RWC. That really worked (thank you Bob Dwyer, who was calling for it consistently).

 

[TSR]

To me - if Beale doesn’t get picked in 10 or 12, he gets picked in 22 or not at all. There are other guys I’d prefer to get picked on the wings available.

 

[aeneas]

Congrats Wobs fans that will stop the drum beats for the coaches head for a week or two.

Boks fans that was one that got away.

 

[Derpus]

I’m not sure how you get that.
Kurtley was horrible at 10. He ran side ways taking away space from his runners and generally was rushed into poor options. He’s better one out or at full back. To'omua on the other hand was solid in defense and attack and contributed a lot.
What we learned was that Foley is a much better 10 than KB (Kurtley Beale) right now. Given time Kurtley may improve. We also were reminded that To'omua is test class and a good bloke to have on the pitch. Problem is he doesn’t offer the same attacking fire power as KB (Kurtley Beale) at 12.

I would guess that Cheika will run the same inside backs again next week to give it a chance.

He's just better at 12 and fullback. I don't think he'll get better at 10 given time. He's had years.

 

[barbarian]

I think To'omua and Beale are both great players, with skillsets that no other Aussie backs possess.

Beale can exploit gaps like no other, with a burst of pace and vision that is miles better than any other. To'omua's defence is superb, and while he's not a spark plug like Beale he has a kicking game and is a physical presence in attack.

I don't think either of them is a 10.

On first viewing, our attack looked far more structured when Foley came onto the field. He has plenty of faults, but one thing he is good at is keeping our attack flat and straight.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with BH and others - we need all three of Foley/Beale/To'omua in the team, it's just a matter of what number you put on their backs.

Put Beale to FB and Folau on the wing. They can patrol the defensive backfield and combine on the counter. Then they can inject themselves in attack where they see fit. Foley can marshall the unit from 10, and To'omua can lead kicking and defence from 12.
.

 

[Derpus]

I think To'omua and Beale are both great players, with skillsets that no other Aussie backs possess.

Beale can exploit gaps like no other, with a burst of pace and vision that is miles better than any other. To'omua's defence is superb, and while he's not a spark plug like Beale he has a kicking game and is a physical presence in attack.

I don't think either of them is a 10.

On first viewing, our attack looked far more structured when Foley came onto the field. He has plenty of faults, but one thing he is good at is keeping our attack flat and straight.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with BH and others - we need all three of Foley/Beale/To'omua in the team, it's just a matter of what number you put on their backs.

Put Beale to FB and Folau on the wing. They can patrol the defensive backfield and combine on the counter. Then they can inject themselves in attack where they see fit. Foley can marshall the unit from 10, and To'omua can lead kicking and defence from 12.
.

Folau's ego can't handle that plus DHP is a better fullback than Beale (and probably Folau). I don't think you can shoehorn all 3 into the team at one time.

We could improve on the wings though. Koro has been relatively poor and Maddocks seems too small/should have finished a few last match that he didn't.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I think To'omua and Beale are both great players, with skillsets that no other Aussie backs possess.

Beale can exploit gaps like no other, with a burst of pace and vision that is miles better than any other. To'omua's defence is superb, and while he's not a spark plug like Beale he has a kicking game and is a physical presence in attack.

I don't think either of them is a 10.

On first viewing, our attack looked far more structured when Foley came onto the field. He has plenty of faults, but one thing he is good at is keeping our attack flat and straight.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with BH and others - we need all three of Foley/Beale/To'omua in the team, it's just a matter of what number you put on their backs.

Put Beale to FB and Folau on the wing. They can patrol the defensive backfield and combine on the counter. Then they can inject themselves in attack where they see fit. Foley can marshall the unit from 10, and To'omua can lead kicking and defence from 12.
.

And now we have the Toombeley. The Wallabies will always give up more points than they score with both Foley and Beale there at the same time.

 

[KOB1987]

And now we have the Toombeley. The Wallabies will always give up more points than they score with both Foley and Beale there at the same time.

Except that the Boks scored 0 points when they were both out there on Saturday.

 

[fatprop]

I am amazed we won that, it was ugly, but we got it done

With those 3 down I thought we were ripe for the taking. But with Elton playing we always had some chance

 

[barbarian]

And now we have the Toombeley. The Wallabies will always give up more points than they score with both Foley and Beale there at the same time.

I don't think that's fair at all. Beale with 15 on his back doesn't defend in the frontline, and Foley has To'omua there to add some backbone in defence.
.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Use these stats as you will:
Number of passes against South Africa this week
9 - 64
10 - 11
12 - 4


Number of passes against new Zealand last week
9 - 80
10 - 19
12 - 25

It really is a completely different game plan with the different backlines

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[Derpus]

^^^
The fuck do they mean?
Wait, figured it out. Man i'm dumb sometimes.

 

[barbarian]

To'omua isn't a ball-player as much as Beale.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think it's hard to make any overly definitive conclusions regarding our playmakers from that game. South Africa were miles worse than New Zealand and we hardly excelled in attack and faced only a fraction of the pressure in defence compared to the previous two games.

I expect Cheika will keep the same option this weekend to give it another crack but I think anyone who thinks we've suddenly found the answer to replace Foley or that To'omua is now locked in as starting 12 is seeing only what they want to see.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Dctarget]

Yeah I wonder if SA scored a try and the death and we lost by 2 points, would we all be calling for the end of Beale/To'omua partnership.

I don't think Beale is the flyhalf to take us to the world cup, his defence isn't up to scratch and I think Foley is a much more practiced and traditional 10 who should be able to let our very good backline sing. Maybe Foley needs this from Beale to realise his position isn't secure and in turn plays the house down, but IMHO he's cemented there. Beale and To'omua can duke it out for 12.

The backline I want:
9. Genia 10. Foley 11. Koroibete 12. To'omua 13. Hodge 14. Folau 15. DHP 22. What ever scrumhalf we have left 23. Beale as a supersub.

Big fan of Maddocks but Folau would be miles better than him (or Banks) on the wing. Strangely we have some depth in the backline if not blighted by injuries. What happens to Hodge when TK and Kerevi return? For positions 10-15 and the two bench spots, we have too many names. Beale, Foley, Hodge, To'omua, Kerevi, TK, Koroibete, Folau, DHP, Maddocks/Banks. That's 11 very talented people that have to fit into 8 spots. We could have some quality outside of the XXIII.

We desperately need to train a reserve scrumhalf, Genia is so essential to our team but injury prone. I genuinely don't know who out of the competitors is right, but we need to work it out.

Also I'm praying Jack Dempsey makes a good return soon and with Taf on the way out Jordan Uelese's recovery is very important. I think Jordan is going to be our hooker for a long time.

 

[Ignoto]

Put Beale to FB and Folau on the wing. They can patrol the defensive backfield and combine on the counter. Then they can inject themselves in attack where they see fit. Foley can marshall the unit from 10, and To'omua can lead kicking and defence from 12.

Fair points Barb, but what happens when TK and Kerevi are fit to play in a few months/next year?

Do you drop Hodge completely out of the 15 so that you have:
10. Foley
11. Koro/DHP
12. To'omua
13. Kerevi
14. Folau
15. KB (Kurtley Beale)

That then takes away our long range kicker from a place and clearing kick perspective.

Between Foley's pop-gun kick and lack of a passing game, I feel that's too much of a trade off to include if it means losing Hodge out of the 15.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I think it's hard to make any overly definitive conclusions regarding our playmakers from that game. South Africa were miles worse than New Zealand and we hardly excelled in attack and faced only a fraction of the pressure in defence compared to the previous two games.

I expect Cheika will keep the same option this weekend to give it another crack but I think anyone who thinks we've suddenly found the answer to replace Foley or that To'omua is now locked in as starting 12 is seeing only what they want to see.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Agree with that

What I find interesting is we went much more conservative with Beale at 10, way more one-off passes, with Genia as the play maker rather than KB (Kurtley Beale).

Looking at a few of the more recent games against Ireland and New Zealand, we were up around 1.8 to 2 passes per ruck.

Against South Africa, we were much less, down around 1.3 to 1.4. Now was that due to the opposition, the rain or the game plan? Who knows

 

[Derpus]

Fair points Barb, but what happens when TK and Kerevi are fit to play in a few months/next year?

Do you drop Hodge completely out of the 15 so that you have:
10. Foley
11. Koro/DHP
12. To'omua
13. Kerevi
14. Folau
15. KB (Kurtley Beale)

That then takes away our long range kicker from a place and clearing kick perspective.

Between Foley's pop-gun kick and lack of a passing game, I feel that's too much of a trade off to include if it means losing Hodge out of the 15.

Foley has a passing game though? Far more than To'omua and more effective than Beale imo.