Australia Vs. England, Twickenham, 2nd November 2013

[Scrubber2050]

It seems to me that Horwill is under some pressure both from playing perspective and captaincy. He really needs to regain his form with this tour.

Otherwise time to blood the next generation and start thinking about the captaincy. World Cup 2015 not that far away. Mowen very unlikely based on current form and uncertainty of retaining position long term. There really aren't many long term options for captaincy so hopefully Horwill will get back to top form.

This tour will be defining for some players and the group as a whole.

 

[en_force_er]

Pocock is capable of being used in the lineout as a dummy option or as a "bet you didn't think we'd go there" option.

I see no reason other than the lineout to not play Pocock and Hooper in the same pack, specially when the other loose forward will be Higgers or Mowen who are both excellent lineout jumpers.

Now, this would preclude Timani for selection but I can't really see any other issues.

 

[Tip]

Hooper does more defence and ball running to get us going forward.

Lost me there mate, Pocock regularly made 15 - 20 tackles a game, Hooper has never scaled such heights

 

[Braveheart81]

Lost me there mate, Pocock regularly made 15 - 20 tackles a game, Hooper has never scaled such heights

I agree that Pocock generally gets through more tackles. I worded it badly.

When some forwards are struggling, Pocock will lift his tackles and breakdown work.

Meanwhile, Hooper will lift his ball running and tackles.

They are definitely a different style of player. I definitely think Pocock is a better overall player at this stage, but Hooper has been pretty incredible since he came on the scene. They're both very important players to Australian rugby.

 

[en_force_er]

I think Hooper is more likely to make the kind of tackle where he dominates the contact, whereas Poey is more likely to make the tackle where he goes low and gets to his feet quickly to contest the ball.

Both are valuable assets.

 

[Scrubber2050]

so if both are in who is out

 

[ChargerWA]

To me the difference between Pocock and Hooper is the reaction they illicit from the opposition. When Pocock is being a pest at the breakdown he forces the opposition to commit more numbers and be more accurate. He is also a master at slowing their ball down. So while you can measure the number of tackles or runs they both make, Pocock also has another effect on the game that cant be measured directly. If you could I believe he would lead the field in this category by some margin.

 

[RoffsChoice]

so if both are in who is out

Hooper, because Pocock is good in any team and fulfills the core jobs of the OSF much better than Hooper does.

 

[Braveheart81]

In a perfect world where both are at peak fitness, Pocock is still a better player.

Whether Pocock is back to peak form by the June internationals next year is another question. History would suggest that after a knee reconstruction that is very unlikely.

Out of all our 7s, Pocock is probably the one you could best put at 6 at the end of the game to run dual 7s. Whether Link wants to try that next season is another question. So far he hasn't liked that option.

If we have Palu or Higginbotham at 8 it might make that decision easier. You can understand him not wanting to sacrifice size at the moment when our forwards are getting consistently outmuscled.

Whatever the case, it's great for Australian rugby that the 2013 JEM will be fighting to hold his place against the returning champion David Pocock and the ever improving Liam Gill.

If we had that situation in 10 or more positions we'd probably be vying with the All Blacks.

 

[BDA]

Backrow next year:

6. Higgers/Fardy
7. Pocock/Hooper
8. Palu/Mowen

Some good depth building there... and that's leaving out the likes of MMM, McCalman and Gill

 

[fatprop]

Backrow next year:

6. Higgers/Fardy
7. Pocock/Hooper
8. Palu/Mowen

Some good depth building there. and that's leaving out the likes of MMM, McCalman and Gill

6. Mowen/Fardy
7. Pocock/Hooper
8. Palu/Higgers

 

[ChargerWA]

6. Higgers/Fardy/Mowen
7. Pocock/Hooper
8. Palu/Higgers

In order of preference. If Palu is fit Higgers goes to 6.

 

[Joe Blow]

It is a matter of balance in the backrow as a unit.
With Fardy and Mowen there is a need for Hoopers running game. As soon as you introduce Higgers and/or Palu it becomes less important.
A fit Pocock will be the first Wallaby picked and 6 and 8 will be picked around him. IfHiggers or Palu is also available Hooper is on the bench.

 

[Shiggins]

Why do England had 34 players in their squad. Isn't that overkill? Especially considering they are at home?

 

[Zander]

I think they'll cut it sometime next week and release them back to clubs.

 

[Groucho]

I think they cover different deficiencies though. Pocock is much better at improving our breakdown when the other forwards aren't doing a lot (think SA in the RWC quarter final - although the rest of our forwards weren't that bad that day). Hooper does more defence and ball running to get us going forward.

Either way, our back row in general struggles to make a big impression on the game if we have several forwards playing badly. It's no secret that when our forwards put in a strong team effort, our backrow and 7 in particular tend to have a field day at the breakdown. That premise seems to hold true across any and every team.

Arguably a successful pack is one where all the deficiencies are covered.

 

[Joe Blow]

Pocock is also a very good choice for skipper.
Horwill is struggling for form but his main issue is his inability to build a rapport with the ref......any ref.
He lacks the temperament required to balance his own game, deal with the ref and guide his side at the highest level. Ditto for Will Genia.

Poey has a very strong on-field presence which lends itself to the captaincy. Richie has a similar presence now but it did not come to him naturally, as is the case with David Pocock.

 

[Groucho]

Pocock is also a very good choice for skipper.
Horwill is struggling for form but his main issue is his inability to build a rapport with the ref..any ref.
He lacks the temperament required to balance his own game, deal with the ref and guide his side at the highest level. Ditto for Will Genia.

Poey has a very strong on-field presence which lends itself to the captaincy. Richie has a similar presence now but it did not come to him naturally, as is the case with David Pocock.

Good points. If Pocock can stay fit he's a good captain. Given his work in the community, potentially a very popular one as well. Horwill and Genia are both just too declarative with refs.

 

[Viking]

I think Hooper is more likely to make the kind of tackle where he dominates the contact, whereas Poey is more likely to make the tackle where he goes low and gets to his feet quickly to contest the ball.

Both are valuable assets.

110% disagree. I don't think Hooper dominates any contact! Well maybe to the odd back or he might make the odd lift tackle to a forward but he rarely dominates the collision area. Whereas Pocock is an all round dominate and physical player.

A fully fit Pocock is the first player picked for the starting team. This is because he ticks the two boxes of what an international 7 must do to beat the best teams (SA ans NZ), and that's be dominate and psychical and the breakdown.

Hooper an amazing player - but needs more physicality and more work at the breakdown. I give him 2 give years to develop more and then it will be a tough call between Pocock and Gill (maybe Fainga too).

 

[lewisr]

Pocock>Hooper in terms of being a 7. Absolutely no question in my opinion. As footballers they are on par with eachother, Hooper is just unbelievable in his adaptability and versatility around the field, the perfect super sub.

HOWEVER, we are forgetting that poey appears to have become/ was already, very injury prone. It doesnt help stability when he's in and out as a captain every second match. I personally think Mowen is the best skipper we have but James is just in a flat spot at the moment. He'll bounce back as his best pals genia and cooper have. I reckon he's next!