Australia vs British and Irish Lions 2nd Test (Melbourne)

[Zander]

What does this have to do with Palu?

 

[cyclopath]

Indeed. Or Giteau.
Maybe time to move on.

 

[Hawko]

Maybe there's another special thread for this or maybe I missed a whole slab of pages but there has been very little discussion of how totally ineffective the Lions backline was.

Not one linebreak! I thought the Lions backs provided absolutely no attacking threat whatsoever. The tactics devised by Gatland were straight out of the Bulls rugby handbook - get the ball into the hand of 10 or 15 and then kick it as high as you can. Every forward and every back except two then chase - those two then wait back hoping to get another chance to kick. It was totally ineffective and with the quality of backs in the Lions squad, it seemed to me to be a waste of the talent available.

Undoubtably it was a Gatland strategy that was predicated on:

• a more generous interpretation at the breakdown by the referee. Congrats to Gatland, he worked hard enough in the media and behind closed doors to get that realised.
• better play by the backrow, who I thought were dominated in the first test but clearly won the second.

But although it went very close, it ultimately did not work. This week he gets North or Tuilagi back so he has even more quality around which he can base his gameplan. So will he change it up and let the backline loose? He's quite a good coach despite being imbued with the NH/SA focus on field position. But right now he (and Dingo) are one game off losing the series. Does he become more positive and make better use of the running talent available or does he stick with what almost worked last Saturday?
I hope this week we prepare for both eventualities or we might get a nasty surprise, especially if we are in front at the 60 minute mark.

 

[Braveheart81]

It's good to know. I personally just eyeballing it felt Palu was ineffective. His there to be the battering ram and too often I think he goes down a little easy for some one his size. I also saw him get in genia's way during a bomb\kick off.

Im sure he will get picked for the next game so I will pay more attention to his actually performance.. Actually no I won't I be drunk screaming from the stands !!!! 'CARN WALLABIES'!!

Why? Is that because he's a number 8 or because he's Tongan?

Surely he's there to do what he's doing which is a truckload of work in tight which is exactly what he's doing. He has high ruck involvement and plenty of carries.

He's not a Fotu Auelua style player whose aim is to smash people with the odd tackle and big run with a full head of steam rather than more constant lower impact involvement.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Why? Is that because he's a number 8 or because he's Tongan?

Surely he's there to do what he's doing which is a truckload of work in tight which is exactly what he's doing. He has high ruck involvement and plenty of carries.

He's not a Fotu Auelua style player whose aim is to smash people with the odd tackle and big run with a full head of steam rather than more constant lower impact involvement.

Well my reasoning wouldn't be because he's of Tongan heritage. It would be because part of an eight's remit IMHO is to hit and bend the line. At least one of the back rowers needs to be that perpetual motion machine and carry the ball up numerous times in a game. If Cliffy's not going to do it (I'm not saying he hasn't) then one of the other blokes needs to.

 

[Casper]

Casper I thought Joubert had a good game, Lydiate was offside was in front of the back foot.

sorry to drag this up but only just logged back on after hangover!!! Have drawn parallel lines on the pitch - lydiate is behind the line. joubert was poor after the first 30 mins - the incident at 42 mins where there are about 4 wallaby offences after a hack through and then vainapola gives away a penalty for picking the ball up in front of a knock on when joubert was shouting advantage was incredibly poor.

I would love to see them thump aus in sydney, but will take a 3-0 bore score if required!!!!

Still waiting on Horwill decision - shoul dbe a 4 match ban in my book

 

[Ignoto]

sorry to drag this up but only just logged back on after hangover!!! Have drawn parallel lines on the pitch - lydiate is behind the line.

Those aren't parrallel lines.

Still waiting on Horwill decision - shoul dbe a 4 match ban in my book

And what about Farrell's "reckless" stamping that took Ben Lucas's ear off during the Reds game? Shall we have the IRB look at that one as well?

 

[Braveheart81]

the incident at 42 mins where there are about 4 wallaby offences after a hack through and then vainapola gives away a penalty for picking the ball up in front of a knock on when joubert was shouting advantage was incredibly poor.

The advantage being played was only for a knock on. Advantage was called over when the Lions had clear possession of the ball and then they knocked it on and Vunipola picked it up from an offside position and a penalty was awarded.

 

[Casper]

Those aren't parrallel lines.



And what about Farrell's "reckless" stamping that took Ben Lucas's ear off during the Reds game? Shall we have the IRB look at that one as well?

they are parallel - unless paint.net produces unparallel lines when using the copy button and transposing using the left arrow key !!!

couldnt care less about farrell - should probably have been banned for a couple of matches

 

[Sully]

They're not parallel

 

[Brumby Runner]

Aside from the obvious skills he displays:

- good long and short passing game
- big boot
- strong in contact
- brutal defender

What I like about him is that he's cool as a mother fuckin' cucumber....

And we already have so many x factor players in our backline I think we could benefit from a good, level headed, reliable playmaker who can get us into an attacking position to unleash those players....

I don't think he's the kind of player to get overwhelmed if he's called up for the RC... despite being young he has been around for a while.. bizarre to think he was a Wallaby squad member 4 years ago...

And he is almost always in position to run the next play/phase. His game management is best of all Aust No 10s.

 

[Casper]

They're not parallel

feel free to take the pic, stick it in paintshop, trace a line across the line in the field and move across.....

 

[Richo]

They're not parallel

Nor are they perpendicular to touch, which is what's actually needed.

But they do show Lydiate to be onside, you have to give them that.

 

[Casper]

The advantage being played was only for a knock on. Advantage was called over when the Lions had clear possession of the ball and then they knocked it on and Vunipola picked it up from an offside position and a penalty was awarded.

so not the advantage from the wallaby kicking the ball from an offside position the lions side of the ruck after the knock on??? I stand corrected as obviously the rules change

 

[Ignoto]

they are parallel - unless paint.net produces unparallel lines when using the copy button and transposing using the left arrow key !!!

Notice how your line goes from completely covering the 10m? line to showing a little bit, to showing more? Your reference point isn't straight so how do you plan on using that to show Lydiate is behind the last feet?

couldnt care less about farrell - should probably have been banned for a couple of matches

A couple of matches for deliberately entering into a ruck recklessly compared to few weeks for a unclear view of whether Horwill placed his foot in a reckless manner?

 

[Sully]

They're not parallel

I'm sorry I was wrong! They are parallel but they aren't in relation to the ground because of the camera angle. this would be a better line. They are still on side

 

[Braveheart81]

so not the advantage from the wallaby kicking the ball from an offside position the lions side of the ruck after the knock on??? I stand corrected as obviously the rules change

I think the ruling was that it was general play. There was no ruck formed when Folau (who had been the tackled player in the previous ruck) gets up and tries to play for the ball that is getting pinged around on the ground.

 

[Casper]

happy to take the

I'm sorry I was wrong! They are parallel but they aren't in relation to the ground because of the camera angle. this would be a better line. They are still on side
View attachment 3868

black line - I didnt take into account the angle - just went for the copy and paste, but he is still behind the line, and genia already has ball in hand (prob for .2 sec min)

 

[Brumby Runner]

I'm sorry I was wrong! They are parallel but they aren't in relation to the ground because of the camera angle. this would be a better line. They are still on side
View attachment 3868

Because of the camera angle, the line at the last foot would have to be on an even more acute angle than the 10m line in order to be perpendicular to the side line. This exercise doesn't really prove anything, one way or another. And the quality of the picture isn't sufficient to say that Genia has his hands on the ball, or more importantly, that the ball has cleared the ruck at that time. Half backs often have their hands on the ball before it clears the ruck and referees will penalise anyone coming through to tackle them before the ball is out.

 

[Casper]

Because of the camera angle, the line at the last foot would have to be on an even more acute angle than the 10m line in order to be perpendicular to the side line. This exercise doesn't really prove anything, one way or another. And the quality of the picture isn't sufficient to say that Genia has his hands on the ball, or more importantly, that the ball has cleared the ruck at that time. Half backs often have their hands on the ball before it clears the ruck and referees will penalise anyone coming through to tackle them before the ball is out.

have a look at the black line that someone else has put on the pic which probably takes into account the angle better than mine - still onside. If you cant see the WHITE ball in Genias hands with the action of passing, then there is no hope. Either Genia has his hands on the ball ie the ball is out or he is handling in the ruck ie penalty to Lions, he doesnt have his hands on the ball and is dummying which became illegal back in the mid 90s and penalty to Lions, or he actually has his hands on the ball (which he does) and is the motion of passing (which he is) and would have had his hands on the ball for a split second previously to pick the ball up (which he did) and Lydiate is STILL behind the line. Therefore, onside, wrong decision. Even the most golden eyed wallaby supporter can see that, and I am an Aussie!!!

I'd rather move on look forward to the next test. The Lions were poor in Melbourne, and had to play against 16 men in Bris Vegas (http://youtu.be/oK7nEzVX4T8 ) - lets hope the ref on Sat applies the rules!!!