Australia vs British and Irish Lions - 1st Test (Brisbane)

[BDA]

For mine, 100% it's the breakdown, the proven centre of the known rugby universe. What was remarkable re the Reds game was that the Reds backrow showed up real weaknesses in the BIL's breakdown skill and intensity and won many micro-contests there (indeed, those wins were crucial to the way Cooper was able to orchestrate play). Warburton was rendered poor-to-ordinary in his work that night. B Robinson made some mistakes in that game, but geez he successfully harassed the BIL off the ball numerous times and regularly showed the BIL loosies right up. IMO, this exposure of BIL weak spots has not been commented on enough. It's one of the reasons I think our better classic fetcher Gill should start, with Hooper coming on later.

Yes I got the same impression from the Reds game. I think it's one away we should get the upper hand. Those who watched the Wallabies v England game last November will recall that the wallabies won that game easily in two areas 1) defense and 2) the breakdown. The Wallabies' work at the breakdown was far superior. I think the prospect of Gill and Hooper playing minutes in the first test means that we should be able to boss the Lions at the breakdown. The Reds did it with a weaker backrow. I'd like to see Gill (or Hooper) come on with 30 minutes to go and have Hooper/Gill/Mowen go nuts.

 

[Blue]

Not sure I agree with that idea. They will find it a lot more difficult if you essentially lose one guy hitting the ricks. Hooper and Gill are good pinchers but their work is only as good as the rest of the pack allows them to. Playing them together in my mind will not give you dominance. Subbing so they are fresh will help though.

 

[Rassie]

Lions got a bigger pack. So Australia needs to tire them out first before handing possession over. Have striker runners a distance from previous rucks and use bigger backline players as supporting players for a offload or cleaning the ruck. When they start faking injuries send on more mobile forwards and stretch them further.

But the key is keeping possession and make sure you drain their energy reserves before handing possession over

 

[Braveheart81]

Lions got a bigger pack.

Will they though?

This is often said about Australian teams and the Wallabies but generally our pack is actually quite big. Often we have a heavier pack on the park form what I've seen.

If we end up starting Robbo, Moore, Alexander, Horwill, Douglas, Mowen, Palu and Hooper then I'd be surprised if we end up having a smaller pack.

 

[Rassie]

Will they though?

This is often said about Australian teams and the Wallabies but generally our pack is actually quite big. Often we have a heavier pack on the park form what I've seen.

If we end up starting Robbo, Moore, Alexander, Horwill, Douglas, Mowen, Palu and Hooper then I'd be surprised if we end up having a smaller pack.

Now go and compare the mobility of each pack including the ages of the players. The art of rugby is balancing your pack with mobility vs pound for pound meat. If you go for mobility you might sacrificing grunt in the scrums for guy who can run around the park longer. Classic example is the Bulls who tried to add some mobiltiy with their props going for guys who move quicker around the park but their scrums have been much weaker.

Also take into account the sledgehammers. Those guys standing off smashing it up. Like with us tha normally makes a team more predictable at selection time. As a sledgehammer bashing it up getting gang tackled gets the energy sapped out of him more than the defense who can read you like a open book. Aussies never had really had sledgehammers. They had the bruising ball carriers but its guys who is not predictable like lets say a Alberts. Also a guy like Genia hides the attack better

 

[BDA]

typical saffa "we need big bodies" approach .

I agree that you should start the game with big ball runners but a dynamic backrow is the best option for dominating the breakdown. The Reds have one of the most impressive back-rows in the Super comp yet they have a relatively small 6,7,8 combination. They got the better of the Lions back row last week not by being bigger but by outworking them. I think finishing the game with Gill and Hooper (both of whom are quality attacking footballers) will get a good result.

 

[Rassie]

typical saffa "we need big bodies" approach .

I agree that you should start the game with big ball runners but a dynamic backrow is the best option for dominating the breakdown. The Reds have one of the most impressive back-rows in the Super comp yet they have a relatively small 6,7,8 combination. They got the better of the Lions back row last week not by being bigger but by outworking them. I think finishing the game with Gill and Hooper (both of whom are quality attacking footballers) will get a good result.

lol I did not say that at all. That is why I avoid Saffer forums cause threads like future springboks start with a bloke being 2m tall weighing so much tipped to e a future bock without the bloke touching a ball in the seniors or u/20's. Poor Freestate players get over looked cause they are seen as midgets. Big problem for taking steps into a new tomorrow I know

 

[Kaz]

Lions pack = big
Aus: JOC (James O'Connor) doing short balls close to said pack = optimistic exercise at best

Lions backs = NH background = will kick.
Folau: can run and is the best back under the high ball. He embraces the high ball.

If we can't have QC (Quade Cooper) distributing the ball wide away from this pack, can we at least give Folau every opportunity to do what he does best - catch and run in broken field play?

Folau @ FB please.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

QC (Quade Cooper) is not in the squad of 31(plus extras) from which Dingo will name his match day 23 Wobs.

Whether you agree with this or not is up for discussion in other threads.

Unless there is some major health problems to Barnes AND JOC (James O'Connor) AND Lilo AND Beale then I see little point in discussing anything QC (Quade Cooper) could bring to the party for the 1st test which is the subject of this thread.

Given the various options available in the back division, I think that Dingo will surprise many of us keyboard selectors when the team is finally announced.

In his quest to play risk free footy, I'm expecting the unexpectable from Dingo.

 

[Zander]

Considering this is the match thread and not a squad one I propose even mentioning Quade Cooper should be outlawed. Yes I have just broken this rule so from now on...

 

[JSRF10]

If Folau starts I hope he has the confidence to take the ball at first receiver when the Wallabies get quick ball after a line break like we've seen for the Tahs. He has looked so comfortably fending off the defensive line and popping an off load to a trailing runner or going himself. Its a side of him the the Lions haven't really mentioned, they only seem to talk about his ability under the high ball and on the counter attack, but I think it could be a key try scoring tactic once the initial defensive line is broken and the Lions big, but immobile backs and forwards are retreating.

 

[Lindommer]

For mine, 100% it's the breakdown, the proven centre of the known rugby universe.....B Robinson made some mistakes in that game, but geez he successfully harassed the BIL off the ball numerous times and regularly showed the BIL loosies right up. IMO, this exposure of BIL weak spots has not been commented on enough. It's one of the reasons I think our better classic fetcher Gill should start, with Hooper coming on later.

Gill starts, Hooper finishes, I couldn't agree more, RH, and have called for this playing order many times here on G&GR. Gill's (slightly) better over the ball while Hooper's definitely better with ball in hand.



How 'bout you resist pinching my ideas re backrow selection?

 

[Sully]

Quade Cooper, Quade Cooper, Quade Cooper. What you going to do about it?

Stop telling other posters what to post about.

 

[qwerty51]

Gill starts, Hooper finishes, I couldn't agree more, RH, and have called for this playing order many times here on G&GR. Gill's (slightly) better over the ball while Hooper's definitely better with ball in hand.



How 'bout you resist pinching my ideas re backrow selection?

A few people keep mentioning Gill should start over Hooper I countered with this Wallabies 31 Man Squad

Am I wrong?

 

[Braveheart81]

A few people keep mentioning Gill should start over Hooper I countered with this Wallabies 31 Man Squad

Am I wrong?

I agree with you.

I think the only time a game opens up in the last 20 minutes is when one side is substantially behind and throwing caution to the wind or alternatively the side winning is so far on top they're running away with it.

If a game is close the trench warfare becomes more apparent at the end of the game as sides try to minimise mistakes and not lose.

 

[qwerty51]

Yep, the Lions Tests in the last 20 are going to especially be brutal, one breakdown penalty could win the match. You'd want a fresh Gill on for that.

 

[TSR]

A few people keep mentioning Gill should start over Hooper I countered with this Wallabies 31 Man Squad

Am I wrong?

With regards to how fatigue affects the game, I agree with you. However there's are still opportunities for fresh legs due to the tired players and this is where a player like Hooper can make a difference. In saying that, sometimes the gaps are on the edge of the ruck and can be better exploited by someone like Gill who pick and drives instinctively.

For mine, there are still pro/cons to either option. I do think Gill suits Deans game plan better. And, for mine Gill has been the best Australian forward in super rugby. However, Hooper is the incumbent, was our best test forward for the last half of last year, is in form and has more experience - something Deans values highly. Also, given the first test is at Suncorp - a faster track - this may work in Hoopers favour as well.

For me, too close to call and we will be well served either way.

Wouldn't be surprised if Deans uses some rotation between the two over the course of the series.

 

[Scotty]

Yep, the Lions Tests in the last 20 are going to especially be brutal, one breakdown penalty could win the match. You'd want a fresh Gill on for that.

I am sure we will see both on the field at the same time at some stage in the series, particularly considering it looks like we will need 3 backs on the bench (to cover our lack of match fitness).

Our forward reserves will likely be front row, lock reserve and gill. Should work well provided Palu or Mowen don't go down early.

 

[Rassie]

Who is the referee for the game?

 

[Zander]

Based on the Lions side to face the Brumbies, the team for the 1st Test should be:

1. Mako Vunipola
2. Tom Youngs
3. Adam Jones
4. Paul O'Connell
5. Alun Wyn Jones
6. Tom Croft
7. Sam Warburton (c)
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Mike Phillips
10. Jonny Sexton
11. George North
12. Manu Tuilagi
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Richard Hibbard
17. Alex Corbisiero
18. Dan Cole
19. Geoff Parling
20. Dan Lydiate
21. Connor Murray
22. Owen Farrell
23. Simon Zebo