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Australia vs British and Irish Lions - 1st Test (Brisbane)

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RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
I agree ACT, not sure Ioane is even best winger in Oz these days!!!

Yes Dan54, he's not. As I posted earlier this year, have a very close look at DI's 2013 play and you'll see he's got many (consistent) flaws in his game. He's a superb line-breaking winger but his breaks not infrequently end in lost possession, his own isolation, dropped ball, no-pass when a pass is required, etc. And his try-count has fallen, partly as defences against him are improving faster than he is. I love him, but, by world-class standards, he's become a less than complete winger IMO.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Dingo has a history of low risk with selections and game plans.

I can't therefore reconcile the preference for JO'C at 10.

If he is going to take a risk then why not Lilo at 12, outside Gilbert at 10, leaving space for IF at 15 and JO'C on the bench or wing?
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Given Ioane and Tomane are out combined with the fact that Beale has been doing plenty of training at 10 with the Wallabies, I'd love to see Beale moved to 10 and JOC (James O'Connor) moved back to the wing.

My backline would be:

Genia
Beale
Cummins
Horne/Lealiifano (don't really mind)
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
JOC (James O'Connor)
Folau

Phipps, Barnes, McCabe.

Given that the likely alternative is playing Folau on the wing, Beale at fullback and JOC (James O'Connor) at 10, I'd much prefer the backline above.

It all hinges on Ioane. If he is good to go then I'd keep JOC (James O'Connor) at 10, Folau at 15 and Cummins on the other wing. If he isn't then your idea is a good one.

The big issue I have with it is I can't see how Beale is a less risky option than Cooper. In fact in many ways he is more risky.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Also if Beale has mainly been training at 10 it points to him being there or in the bench, with Barnes and Folau the 15 options.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
It all hinges on Ioane. If he is good to go then I'd keep JOC (James O'Connor) at 10, Folau at 15 and Cummins on the other wing. If he isn't then your idea is a good one.

The big issue I have with it is I can't see how Beale is a less risky option than Cooper. In fact in many ways he is more risky.

It seems to have been confirmed this morning that Ioane is definitely out of the first test.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
This. But if true then the expectation is that this year Deans will bring back into the mix some more adventurous play. He has the personnel and frankly I think he would be mad not to for all the reasons others have tabled, including the need in Aussie for rugby to be exciting and open.

What I have seen from the Lions so far tells me we can't rely on tiring them out. We can't rely on them being useless on attack. They have genuine threats across the park and are looking bloody dangerous.

Athilnaur, I would think any coaching group seeing how impressively the Lions' attack is starting to gel (eg, the competence that are showing in defence to attack transition, the good quality of their ball in hand work through the backs, the silk of BO'D, and their counter-attack (see Reds game) strength from their best back three), would know that the type of 'conservative/low risk' game plan the Wallabies have played since the RWC could be dangerously exposed vs the Lions.

The question then becomes: how quickly and competently in the space of 3 weeks and with no warm-up games, can the Wallabies design and be confident of executing under intense Test pressure new 'more adventurous' attacking strategies and specific back line moves?

What is obvious to me is that the BIL coaches dealing with attack and back line work have done a simply excellent job in getting such a disparate group of backs into (mostly) such impressively coherent attacking play as we have seen so far. The silly pre-June notion advanced by some that the BIL 'meat slabs' were only capable of a grinding, forwards-based game style has been exposed as totally misplaced.

Whilst there has been endless speculation here re team design, a bigger issue for the Wallabies sits behind all this. Namely, for our team, in the time available, to design and thoroughly practice far more innovative attacking strategies and tactics than it has shown in more than two years will necessarily take a very competent specialist attack/backs coaching capability. Let's be positive as to potential, but there is simply no evidence that we possess this capability, or, perhaps more importantly, ever had any desire to possess it. R Graham - as a semi, sort-of but not designated backs coach - was let go to the Force in late 2010, he was not directly replaced. No one quite knows what the very lightly experienced Scrivener's specialised role is with the Wallaby team. As I have posted before essentially, since 2008, Deans has himself assumed the role of backs and attack coach.

So, given the obvious need to deal with an emerging power in the BIL attacking patterns and backs skills, what will be fascinating to observe is what if any more dynamic, cunning and 'adventurous' attack and back line plays the Wallabies roll out on June 22. IMO, the key here will not be selections and playing positions, but will be evidence of the capabilities of the Wallabies' entire coaching group, especially those support coaches (if any) designated internally to develop the Wallabies 2013 attack.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Rob Horne and Dave Dennis have been released from the squad for this Saturday so they can play for the Tahs.

I'm assuming this means neither of them will be in the matchday 23 for the first test.

Either this means everyone will be happy and Christian Lealiifano is starting at 12 or everyone will be unhappy and Pat McCabe is starting at 12. The third option is Barnes is starting at 12 and the level of outrage will be somewhere in between.

It also appears to be great news for either Ben Mowen or Hugh McMeniman. I hope Mowen is starting at 6. McMeniman and Gill would be my two non front row reserve forwards.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
... and further news that Kimlin and Sio will play for the Brumbies on Tuesday night.

I think this means that the first test team will be something out of:

Robbo
Moore
Alexander/Slipper
Horwill
Simmons/Douglas
Mowen/McMeniman
Hooper/Gill
Palu
Genia
JOC (James O'Connor)/Beale
Cummins
Lealiifano/McCabe
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
JOC (James O'Connor)/Folau
Beale/Barnes/Folau

Slipper/Alexander, Fainga'a, Kepu, Gill/Hooper, McMeniman/Mowen, Phipps, two out of Barnes/McCabe/Folau/Morahan/Lealiifano

For the record, my preferrred team would be all the green names in the bracketed positions.
 

BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
I have a horrible feeling that Deans has Dave Dennis's name marked in green on his starting side.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I have a horrible feeling that Deans has Dave Dennis's name marked in green on his starting side.

I really, really doubt it after he has been released to play this weekend.

Why would you release him and not other certain Wallaby starters from the Tahs?

Especially given that he got a cork in his last game for the Tahs you wouldn't think he'd need any extra football if he was playing for the Wallabies.
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
Also if Beale has mainly been training at 10 it points to him being there or in the bench, with Barnes and Folau the 15 options.


If Beale has mainly been at 10 then they decide to play JOC (James O'Connor) there it will be even worse. To have very little Super Rugby form and time in the position then run someone else there to get them involved or up to speed seems too crazy even for Robbie.

I think it is looking more likely that JOC (James O'Connor) will play wing with all the injuries but if he is at 10 with limited time things could get ugly.
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
Rob Horne and Dave Dennis have been released from the squad for this Saturday so they can play for the Tahs.

I'm assuming this means neither of them will be in the matchday 23 for the first test.


A strong game for the Reds did wonders for Morahan and I think Robbie will be hoping for the same here. These 2 positions are probably the most strongly contested and a big game from either would likely see them play themselves into the XV. This is his last chance for a look at people so I think he is taking it and would not be reading anything into what this means for the first test.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
It seems to have been confirmed this morning that Ioane is definitely out of the first test.

Ok. So the options:

10 Beale
14 JOC (James O'Connor)
15 Folau

10 JOC (James O'Connor)
14 McCabe/Morahan
15 Folau

10 JOC (James O'Connor)
14 Folau
15 Barnes/Beale

I would be happy with option 1 or 2, but think we will see my least preferred which is option 3.
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
Morahan is surely injury cover. He's not going to go from out of the squad to starter.

I reckon we're going to see:

9. Genia
10. JOC (James O'Connor)
11. Cummins
12. McCabe
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Folau
15. Beale

What I'd do with the cattle available:

9. Genia
10. Beale
11. Cummins
12. Lilo
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. JOC (James O'Connor)
15. Folau
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
PS: I should add, I'm not stoked about Beale at 10, I just think he's a marginally better option than JOC (James O'Connor) and I like the balance more this way.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
I think we might see:

9 Genia
10 JOC (James O'Connor)
11 Cummins
12 Lilo
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14 Folau
15 Barnes

Phipps - pine warmer
McCabe - injury cover
Beale - super sub
 

BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
I really, really doubt it after he has been released to play this weekend.

Why would you release him and not other certain Wallaby starters from the Tahs?

Especially given that he got a cork in his last game for the Tahs you wouldn't think he'd need any extra football if he was playing for the Wallabies.

Sorry didn't see he was being released. that's good news for Mowen and MMM fans.
 

BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
Has anyone been down there to watch training? What is the backline they are running, and more importantly are we able to get an idea of who will pack down at tighthead?
 

BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
What I'd do with the cattle available:

9. Genia
10. Beale
11. Cummins
12. Lilo
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. JOC (James O'Connor)
15. Folau

I hope we see this. that backline would be dangerous on attack.
 
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