Australia vs British and Irish Lions - 1st Test (Brisbane)

[Athilnaur]

Heres that link Rassie, ot, but hey,

http://www.rugbydump.com/2006/09/23/brian-lima-bone-crunching-tackle-on-derick-hougaard

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Isn't it great how we all excited about this Lions series?? Lions haven't won a series this century, so you would think they are there for the taking...

I cannot speak for the South Africans, but for the Australians and New Zealanders, the Lions are all about taking on the Colonists (apologies to the Irish - its guilt by association)... You only need to to include the word 'British' in there, and that's usually enough for us... Putting them in a Red Jersey and including a few Irishmen makes little difference - they are Poms-by-a-different-name for the duration of those 3 tests...

As they also tend to consider themselves the Cream of British Rugby Talent,this makes the whole thing so much the sweeter - it would'nt really matter too much if they hadn't won a series in 50 years - they are still 'the Brits'...

Keep in mind too, as one learns in Cricket - Losing a Test Series does not mean you lost all the Tests... It should be a cracker!

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

That would be good and not saying we won't play running rugby, but (barring injuries) there is no way QC (Quade Cooper) will be there given RD comments yesterday re Taps.

Still we've got our tickets. Nine of going planning on making a day of it and have told the 'ministers on internal affairs' to expect us when they see us!

Cooper will play - but not the first Test... I believe Deans is trying to make him step-up a notch prior to picking him.

ohh - and I think its a dumb strategy.

 

[GunsGermsRugbyandSteel]

As a Lions fan I hope Cooper is selected. Firstly because he is exciting to watch but secondly because it would no doubt tip the balance markedly in the Lions favour.

He has hardly played a test match in two years, he has a suspect attitude, dreadful defense and cant kick goals. Not sure why he is so popular?

 

[Scoey]

As a Lions fan I hope Cooper is selected. Firstly because he is exciting to watch but secondly because it would no doubt tip the balance markedly in the Lions favour.

He has hardly played a test match in two years, he has a suspect attitude, dreadful defense and cant kick goals. Not sure why he is so popular?

You're prob not sure why because you haven't seen him play. His attitude is good, his defence is good and he is a reliable kicker.

 

[GunsGermsRugbyandSteel]

I havent seen him play more than one test match in the last couple of years if thats what you mean. Though that because he has only played one I think. Prior to that at the world cup he was fairly average and seemed a bit of a liability.

Granted he has had some good days out at super rugby but super rugby is not test rugby and Lions rugby is a further step up is it not? Where does all the faith in him come from?

He has been left out of the squad because of bad attitude has he not? Im curious as to why this is a problem for Deans but a lot of the fans are so much more forgiving.

His defense is not good and while it may have improved he will most certainly be targeted by the Lions if he starts.

 

[Scoey]

I havent seen him play more than one test match in the last couple of years if thats what you mean. Though that because he has only played one I think. Prior to that at the world cup he was fairly average and seemed a bit of a liability.

Granted he has had some good days out at super rugby but super rugby is not test rugby and Lions rugby is a further step up is it not? Where does all the faith in him come from?

He has been left out of the squad because of bad attitude has he not? Im curious as to why this is a problem for Deans but a lot of the fans are so much more forgiving.

His defense is not good and while it may have improved he will most certainly be targeted by the Lions if he starts.

If you're basing your appraisal on him based on his test form from two years ago then you might be correct. Irrelevant to his form and abilities now but probably correct. But if we did that then Priestland or Flood would prob be the starting 10 for the Lions.

It's been done to death but I can go over it again. The support for him comes from him being the best fly half we have available. The other candidates are either injured, uncapped or not really fly halves.

Why he has been left out of the squad has been wildly speculated over and we're none the wiser. You certainly couldn't say that it's because of a bad attitude on QC (Quade Cooper)'s part with and confidence. It's been speculated that its because he doesn't fit the game plan, he overplays, there is a personality clash with the coach and many other reasons. In reality it's probably a combination of a few.

His defence is fine. The fact that he would be targeted by the lions is not evidence of weak defence. Most team send traffic at the 10. It's what you do. I would be as confident with him there as I would with Beale or JOC (James O'Connor).

 

[Scoey]

You nailed it, unfortunately most Wallabies fans are deluded about his abilities, I am not.

Good one Qwerty! Sometimes I can't tell if you're joking. But this time surely you are! ;-)

 

[GunsGermsRugbyandSteel]

If you're basing your appraisal on him based on his test form from two years ago then you might be correct. Irrelevant to his form and abilities now but probably correct. But if we did that then Priestland or Flood would prob be the starting 10 for the Lions.

It's been done to death but I can go over it again. The support for him comes from him being the best fly half we have available. The other candidates are either injured, uncapped or not really fly halves.

Why he has been left out of the squad has been wildly speculated over and we're none the wiser. You certainly couldn't say that it's because of a bad attitude on QC (Quade Cooper)'s part with and confidence. It's been speculated that its because he doesn't fit the game plan, he overplays, there is a personality clash with the coach and many other reasons. In reality it's probably a combination of a few.

His defence is fine. The fact that he would be targeted by the lions is not evidence of weak defence. Most team send traffic at the 10. It's what you do. I would be as confident with him there as I would with Beale or JOC (James O'Connor).

Priestland and Flood are the two most out of form OHs in the last couple of years. Both dropped for their countries for the 6 nations. Priestland in particular has been shocking.

Form NH OHs this year are:

Sexton - Two trophys this year, Rabo and Amlin. Injured for most of 6N but played one game v Wales and won.
Farrell - Instrumental in defeating the AB, nominated for world player of the year. Decent run with England in the 6N.
Madigan - Top try scoring OH in the Rabo and one of the most exciting young OHs around.
Biggar - Now Wales #1 and good all rounder.
Wilko - European player of the year and Hcup winner.

 

[GunsGermsRugbyandSteel]

Can anyone name the only two players to play for both Australia and the Lions?

 

[qwerty51]

The trophy is named after him..

 

[JSRF10]

If the Lions field anyone except Sexton at 10 they are goosed. Farrell and Wilko are just as good as a robotic kicking leg both sit deep in the pocket and do very little creatively, Biggar isn't much better, as much as I rate Madigan I don't think he is a fly half that can win a Lion series.

 

[GunsGermsRugbyandSteel]

It has come around too soon for Madigan as he has no test experience at all (bar a few caps off the bench). Madigan has proven for Leinster this year though that he can be a match winner. His performance against a particularly good Galsgow side this year stands out. However, its hard to know if he could win a Lions series or not. One thing is for sure he would be exciting to watch as he has a great step, a real threat with ball in hand and can now kick too.

Farrell and Wilko are a little 1D alright but Wilko in particular is a good decision maker with an exceptional attitude to the game and wouldnt be a terrible addition even if he did hand the last series to Joe Roff in '01 with a very loose pass.

 

[GunsGermsRugbyandSteel]

The trophy is named after him..

Yeah its named after one of them Tom Richards, who is the other one?

 

[lewisr]

I havent seen him play more than one test match in the last couple of years if thats what you mean. Though that because he has only played one I think. Prior to that at the world cup he was fairly average and seemed a bit of a liability.

I think it's interesting that people concentrate solely on his efforts at the world cup when he had a ball running inside centre for the majority of the tournament. I completely agree that he was a liability in NZ but if you watch his games at flyhalf in games before that and in 2010, you would have to agree that he was quite influential in producing tries and playing an exciting and successful brand of creative rugby. This was primarily with Giteau outside him as the second option for first receiver. It boggles me as to why Barnes was not played at inside for the World Cup and now Deans has decided that he is the automatic selection for the wobs.

Before we go on a rant about how "you don't see the merits in his game", you must understand that we play (or used to play) a different style of rugby to the NH. It is a higher risk higher reward approach but it bloody well has worked for us in the past.

I am a self admitted quade lover and qwerty should at least admit that he is a proven anti-quade poster but the majority of the forum (at least those that I have seen post in the 25 man squad) agree that Cooper brings a lot to the table and his attributes outweigh his negatives.

If you are still not convinced by his ability, take a look at some of the highlight reels from the last 3 years. There is something about his approach that is completely different. It is not traditional and I don't think he is the best 'traditional' flyhalf in Australia, that role is fulfilled by Berrick Barnes, but there have been clear improvements this year.

At this moment in time I don't see anyone better than him in Australia (as scoey has already pointed out). I am not saying he is the messiah but compared to our other options he has had more game time at 10 both internationally and at S15 this year and has been more consistent than the other front runners.

 

[GunsGermsRugbyandSteel]

Before we go on a rant about how "you don't see the merits in his game", you must understand that we play (or used to play) a different style of rugby to the NH. It is a higher risk higher reward approach but it bloody well has worked for us in the past.

I am a self admitted quade lover and qwerty should at least admit that he is a proven anti-quade poster but the majority of the forum (at least those that I have seen post in the 25 man squad) agree that Cooper brings a lot to the table and his attributes outweigh his negatives.

I do understand what the positives are re Cooper. I just think the negatives have been more prominent lately particularly at test level.

At this moment in time I don't see anyone better than him in Australia (as scoey has already pointed out). I am not saying he is the messiah but compared to our other options he has had more game time at 10 both internationally and at S15 this year and has been more consistent than the other front runners.

Thats the point though he has hardly played test rugby at all in the last couple of years. Beale has played more games at 10 than anyone for the Aussies lately.

 

[lewisr]

I do understand what the positives are re Cooper. I just think the negatives have been more prominent lately particularly at test level.



Thats the point though he has hardly played test rugby at all in the last couple of years. Beale has played more games at 10 than anyone for the Aussies lately.

When you say 'lately' he only played one or two tests last year didnt he? You're talking about the fact that he hasn't played much recently as well, so is it really fair to gauge him on efforts 2 years ago? He's changed quite a bit since then.

The problem is that our coach is (planning) to play someone who has even had less experience at test level lately. Not just at 10 but playing for the wallabies in general. Beale has recently punched his captain in the face and engaged in rehab for alcoholism after breaking an agreement with the ARU a week after signing it. I don't think it sends a good message to the players or helps him with his recovery if he is thrust into the test arena.

Like I said, best option at the moment I believe.

Anyway i'm getting OT here and someones going to harassing us soon haha.

 

[sootyanddave]

If you're basing your appraisal on him based on his test form from two years ago then you might be correct. Irrelevant to his form and abilities now but probably correct. But if we did that then Priestland or Flood would prob be the starting 10 for the Lions.

It's been done to death but I can go over it again. The support for him comes from him being the best fly half we have available. The other candidates are either injured, uncapped or not really fly halves.

Why he has been left out of the squad has been wildly speculated over and we're none the wiser. You certainly couldn't say that it's because of a bad attitude on QC (Quade Cooper)'s part with and confidence. It's been speculated that its because he doesn't fit the game plan, he overplays, there is a personality clash with the coach and many other reasons. In reality it's probably a combination of a few.

His defence is fine. The fact that he would be targeted by the lions is not evidence of weak defence. Most team send traffic at the 10. It's what you do. I would be as confident with him there as I would with Beale or JOC (James O'Connor).

What about Quade's own view on his abilities and style?

He categorically said that it was stupid to pick him to play a conservative game.

What has changed,apart from the fact that his outburst didn't get the coach sacked?

 

[Scoey]

Priestland and Flood are the two most out of form OHs in the last couple of years. Both dropped for their countries for the 6 nations. Priestland in particular has been shocking.

That's precisely my point. You (and plenty of others) are basing their opinion of Quade on his RWC11 form, 2 years ago!!! Yet you don't (and not should you) do this for any other player. It's another double standard when it comes to Quade.
You have to rely to some degree on S15 form. You simply have to. Otherwise anyone dropped from a test side would never be picked again because their prior test form was not good. Horne should rightfully be picked in the Wallabies. If you based the selection on his previous wallabies form he'd never play test footy again. His selection is based purely on S15 form. Yet for some reason you can't do this with Quade.

 

[Scoey]

What about Quade's own view on his abilities and style?

He categorically said that it was stupid to pick him to play a conservative game.

If Deans is looking to play a conservative style then I would agree that not picking him and going with someone like Barnes at 10 would be logical. That is pretty much what QC (Quade Cooper) said.
I'm not certain that that is the case but we will see in good time.