Australia vs British and Irish Lions - 1st Test (Brisbane)

[Ruggo]

Some other stats:

Lions made 5 linebreaks(Corbisiero, Phillips, North, Davies, Cuthbert) to 3 (Genia, Folau, Beale).

Genia 3 kicks (209m), JOC (James O'Connor) 1 kick (41m), Barnes 3 kicks (103m), Beale 3 kicks (121m).

Phillips 5 kicks (167m), Sexton 11 kicks (291m), Davies 2 kicks (98m), Youngs 1 kick (32m).

Horwill 4 turnovers, Benn Robinson 2 turnovers. Wallabies: 11 turnovers.

Heaslip 2 turnovers, Cuthbert 2 turnovers. Lions: 6 turnovers.

Would love to see the kick/pass/run stats.

I know he is not the flavor of the month and in trouble but 4 turnovers for Kev is not bad. I have always admired how agile he is for a big fella.

 

[Garryowen]

No pace? Agree.

Wow. No ball skills, though. I would say that A. Finger has more ball skills than Horne (who has a habit of throwing horribly loopy passes), McCabe, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). He used to be a 12 who played 10 at times in club rugby. Obviously you haven't watched him over the years. His passing hasn't been great this year, though, but in previous years he had a good knack for throwing the last pass for a try.

I wouldn't pick A. Finger because he's not dynamic enough, and his defence hasn't been as good this year.

So suggesting he has no ball skills is evidence I haven't watched him play?

Pretty confident I'm not the only one who thought he stifled the Wobs backline whenever he's been selected. The McCabe / Fainga'a centre pairing is just about the worst combination I've seen the wallabies field in many years of watching the game.

Granted, he's about par with McCabe from a distribution perspective. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) actually has a decent pass, he just doesn't use it very often.

As for who would I prefer in place of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), I'd plump for Kuridrani, Inman, Horne and even Taps ahead of Ant.

 

[Cassius88]

He really doesn't like backing up his players, does he?! I am starting to understand the Cooper 'toxic' comment!

'I guess he was at the heart'
'You have probably got to give him credit'

What sort of language is that when you are supposed to support your players?

Disagree, I think Deans is actually being quite diplomatic. Everyone knew that JOC (James O'Connor) had a howler and Deans basically said that it was tough because Lilo got injured and that he had helped get us as close as we were. In reality, JOC (James O'Connor) had little/nothing to do with us being close, so Deans backs him up more than he really should.

If Deans had come out and said that JOC (James O'Connor) had a blinder then he'd just look stupid. What should he have said?

 

[Ruggo]

He really doesn't like backing up his players, does he?! I am starting to understand the Cooper 'toxic' comment!

'I guess he was at the heart'
'You have probably got to give him credit'

What sort of language is that when you are supposed to support your players?

He really does obfuscate from taking any responsibility himself.

Robbie the circumstance really is that you put a player with one cap of experience at flyhalf into the most intense test we have played in some years.

 

[I like to watch]

The circumstance is that his playmaking centre AND his goalkicker didn't last a minute.
They then lost the replacement,and then his replacement.They finished the game with a flanker @ 12, a halfback on the wing AND Ione was busted and should have been replaced.
Despite all this they had 2 kicks to win the game.
It would appear nothing less than whitewash would have satisfied you.

 

[ACT Crusader]

He really doesn't like backing up his players, does he?! I am starting to understand the Cooper 'toxic' comment!

'I guess he was at the heart'
'You have probably got to give him credit'

What sort of language is that when you are supposed to support your players?

I thought it was quite complimentary. He knows he didn't play to his best both because of performance and the situation, but he was still trying his best (hence the heart comment) to put the Wallabies into a winning position.

 

[Scotty]

He made JOC (James O'Connor) 10 with a ball playing 12 outside him.
He made JOC (James O'Connor) the BACKUP kicker.
He chose players that were fit,to play from the bench.
How did BB get injured? Tell me that was forseeable!
IF BIL lost their kicker in the first minute,I don't believe they kick as many goals.In which case we would have won the match.
HAd the BIL lost their playmaker in the first minute,I think we would have won the match.

Beale played in flyhalf role with McCabe and Hooper at 12. He showed up JOC (James O'Connor), so please don't try to tell me JOC (James O'Connor) looked average just because Lilo got injured.

If he picked JOC (James O'Connor) as the second best kicker, why wasn't he taking those last two?

Fit? It think you are kidding yourself. Barnes and MCabe haven't been up to 80 minutes of super rugby so how could they be considered fit. Ioane was coming back from weeks out. There were way too many risks in the backs and Deans needs to take responsibility for this. Incidentally it was McCabe and Barnes that missed North (after Barnes kicked the ball straight to him).

It is definitely foreseeable that Ioane, Barnes and McCabe were injury and fitness risks.

And are you suggesting that Deans picked Lilo at 12 to be our playmaker?

 

[Nusadan]

Just woken up here, and spent the last 30mins catching up on the posts in this thread, and nary a mention of Drew Mitchell? He was brilliant at fullback last week against the Lion's backline, it was like seeing him of old when he was the best winger in Oz...

No way Mogg is any better than Mitchell, and Mitchell offers plenty of big match experience!

 

[Slim 293]

Well, Mogg got the call up and Mitchell didn't.......

It's hard to argue that Mogg wasn't deserving, plus he's been in Wallaby camp already this year.......

 

[Dan54]

I would suggest that Scotty, what's so unusual about that? Wallabies have often used 9 at playmaker,and to use one at 12 as a secondary one is not unusual. All Blacks used to do it with Aaron Mauger.
In fact in NZ they tended to be used a hell of a lot as second playmaker right up until the likes of Umaga and Nonu etc. I did feel a bit for JOC (James O'Connor) as I think if you had trained to play that style, it can then make it bloody hard to have it all ripped apart in first minute of game. I really don't think you are giving Wallabies their due on performance!!

 

[Nusadan]

Well, Mogg got the call up and Mitchell didn't...

It's hard to argue that Mogg wasn't deserving, plus he's been in Wallaby camp already this year...

Being in the camp already should not be a criteria for selection, it's all about current form and more!

 

[Ash]

I know he is not the flavor of the month and in trouble but 4 turnovers for Kev is not bad. I have always admired how agile he is for a big fella.

4 turnovers is bad. Turnover your own ball to the other team.

 

[Slim 293]

On current form Mogg is quite deserving......

Mitchell struggled to make the Waratahs team for most of the year and saved his one good game until a couple of weeks ago.....

Too little too late..... but I'm sure he'd be considered if there's anymore outside back injuries........

 

[Ash]

So suggesting he has no ball skills is evidence I haven't watched him play?

Pretty confident I'm not the only one who thought he stifled the Wobs backline whenever he's been selected. The McCabe / Fainga'a centre pairing is just about the worst combination I've seen the wallabies field in many years of watching the game.

Granted, he's about par with McCabe from a distribution perspective. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) actually has a decent pass, he just doesn't use it very often.

As for who would I prefer in place of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), I'd plump for Kuridrani, Inman, Horne and even Taps ahead of Ant.

The fact you use no balls skills to describe Ant then don't talk the same about Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), etc indicates you don't know the abilities of the players. I think that Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) do have some ball skills, but Ant has more.

I'm pretty sure you're in the minority that thinks Ant has no ball skills. So yes, I doubt you've seen him play much over his career.

Obviously you don't rate him, but just because you don't rate someone doesn't mean that they have no skills, particularly compared to their peers.

In this case, sorry, you're just plain wrong.

 

[Nusadan]

On current form Mogg is quite deserving..

Mitchell struggled to make the Waratahs team for most of the year and saved his one good game until a couple of weeks ago...

Too little too late... but I'm sure he'd be considered if there's anymore outside back injuries....

Speaking of 'current form', how did Ioane get picked then? He certainly was picked on past reputation not on form this year, and Mitchell thus has plenty of past reputation as well as current form. Also Mitchell has played with Folau and they complement each other, I can't imagine Mogg doing the same and expect to seamlessly work with Folau. It's all about true and tried combinations, and the 2nd test against the Lions is no place to have a totally brand new combination especially when Folau is playing only his 2nd test, notwithstanding his big match experience and temperament...Mitchell certainly offers more than Mogg in that department.

There is precedent for that in the All Blacks just now, Monu and Dagg were picked despite poor form in Super 15 and yet their experience and big match temperament saw them play much better for the ABs!

 

[Slim 293]

How many great performances did Mitchell put in with Folau this year?

I thought it was Crawford and Betham?

Mitchell had been poor all year up until that Lions match, and it obviously wasn't enough to see him brought into the squad........

Anyways, you're argument is all over the place....... and the decision has already been made..........

 

[Nusadan]

It's clear that Mitchell did much better than Mogg did against the Lions when Mogg played against an inferior line up compared to what Mitchell faced.

 

[Ruggo]

4 turnovers is bad. Turnover your own ball to the other team.

Whoops, I thought you meant turn overs won. I agree that is bad now.

 

[Ruggo]

Well, Mogg got the call up and Mitchell didn't...

It's hard to argue that Mogg wasn't deserving, plus he's been in Wallaby camp already this year...

Mogg is deserving. Good addition me thinks.

 

[Garryowen]

The fact you use no balls skills to describe Ant then don't talk the same about Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), etc indicates you don't know the abilities of the players. I think that Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) do have some ball skills, but Ant has more.

I'm pretty sure you're in the minority that thinks Ant has no ball skills. So yes, I doubt you've seen him play much over his career.

Obviously you don't rate him, but just because you don't rate someone doesn't mean that they have no skills, particularly compared to their peers.

In this case, sorry, you're just plain wrong.

I initially said Ant has no ball skills. I didn't pass judgment on his peers until you brought up that strawman argument.

For what it's worth, I think he is worse than Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in this department.

This is not a popularity contest, but I note that my comment received multiple likes. It seems that others agree with my view point. So I doubt I'm in the minority here, even including our friends north of the border.

Remember the general malaise when he and McCabe were the centre pairing during the RWC? Remember how well that went against the ABs?