Australia Vs Argentina, September 13, Gold Coast

[Dctarget]

Probably invited along because of location more than anything. Do we find out tomorrow?


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[KOB1987]

Wednesday

 

[KOB1987]

you could be right Dctarget, and after suggesting a few posts ago that Hoiles would be fairly well down the pecking order, having given it further consideration there is probably a good chance that he will get the gig for this trip..

 

[Train Without a Station]

Made the squad last year and dropped out due to injury. Link obviously thinks highly of him I guess

 

[Brumby Runner]

I'm only basing that on the fact that he was in the train-on squad last week and that was presumably in case Cliff couldn't tour..but I would agree with TWAS that in this instance, as a #3 back-up for the tour Hoiles would be a better option..

Weren't a couple of Force players brought into the training squad before the match in Perth? Didn't mean anything more than they were convenient for training purposes. Might have been a similar story with Schatz before the game on the GC.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Just a general theme about the wallabies. We towelled up France, but they were shit even though they were a top 10 team,drew with the all blacks in Sydney, but it was only because they were shit even though they're the best on the world, beat South Africa in Perth but even though they are number 2 they were shit and then beat Argentina, but they're shit too.

Who exactly are good?

I've read a lot of articles about how we have to do better, but other than 1 of the last 10 games, when have we?

 

[Dctarget]

That. That is a very very good point and a sentiment I've been feeling a lot recently. This constant pessimism about the Wallabies is very tiresome.

 

[Hawko]

That's it. I'm done with Palu. Too damn injury prone. His past injuries are now making current ones a greater risk.

If this is to have any validity then we need to extend the same criteria to other players. That probably means that the following players should not be considered for the RWC:

• Moore
• TPN
• Genia
• Cooper
• Pocock
• Betham
• Speight
• Horwill
• and lots of others I could reel off.

Professional rugby is played at such a high physical level that a majority of players have long injury lapses, particularly as they get older. And its not just Australians - Carter is a week-to-week proposition for NZ. Doesn't mean NZ won't select him if he's fit; they're just going to build depth now that he doesn't play so regularly.
So, lets just be thankful we have him, select him when he's fit and keep building the depth at 8 when he's not.

 

[KOB1987]

Couldn't agree more TWAS..a win at Newlands would see us move into #2 and that's just because everyone we play is shit? Yeah right..

As far as our team ATM goes, we are yet to work out what our best 4/5/6 combo is, and similarly 9/10/12, everything else is just being managed around availability..if you look at hawko's list above, add O'Connor to it and pool them with the current team, then by the time RWC comes around we could have a bit of a selection conundrum and a pretty scary team to boot..


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[Quick Hands]

Quick Hands, I was a bit hard on you with the 'lamb-brain' reference, and I also didn't wish to offend any lambs viewing this site! I am a passionate Wallabies supporter, as is my family, which won the Australian final of the "Show Your True Colours" competition (to decorate your home and front garden), leading up to the 2003 Rugby World Cup.

I agree that "Rugby is in the entertainment business", but equally important is the fact that Rugby is also in the promotion business. As Australia's sixth-largest city, located on the boundary of the two strongest "Rugby states" in Australia, it is logical that the ARU should wish to grow the game in our city. Whilst there were ads on local commercial radio for Saturday's match here on the GC, I doubt that there was much promotion in Brisbane.
When I was managing a colts club team here on the coast, (16 years ago), the ARU had 5 "Development Officers" to cover all the schools and Rugby clubs in Queensland. At the same time, the AFL had 25!
If a crowd of 14,200 for a city of 600,000 is deemed as being disappointing, if you use crowd size as the only criteria, then any crowd under 115,000 at a Sydney test should be described similarly.
I know it's about generating dollars, but it also about the future, and "taking risks" along the way.
Most successful entrepreneurs, business icons, inventors, entertainers, etc will tell you that you usually don't succeed if you haven't first experienced several failures.

The ARU has to have "the balls" to work harder at promoting next year's Gold Coast test, (the last one on it's current contract).

No problem. We go to all the Waratahs and Wallaby matches in Sydney.

I have nothing against the Gold Coast as a venue and I'm all for promoting the game outside of traditional rugby areas. As I said in one of my posts, the ARU should be looking long term at North Queensland as a venue as a way of promoting the game there. Your points about ARU promotion are no doubt valid.

If not sure if extrapolating the crowd based on the population of the city is valid though. Having said that Sydney crowds for the Waratahs dropped off and made a comeback in the 2nd half of 2014.

In Sydney, 60,000 is a pass mark for ABs and Springbok matches and 40,000 for other tier 1 nations. Brisbane always draws 50,000 to Suncorp for the big games and I'd reckon if you going to move the match out of Brisbane to the Gold Coast 25,000 would be the crowd you're looking for in such a great facility (capacity just over 27,000).

 

[KOB1987]

Looking forwards to Newlands, I wouldn't be surprised if there are no changes except for the return of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)..

Although Carter hasn't been performing great, he hasn't been poor and I think that Link is taking a longer term view with him and backing him for the future i.e. is willing to accept a bit of underperformance now and work on improving him and get as many test hours into him as possible

Fardy however is expendable but has been thrown a lifeline with Palu being ruled out..90% of punters out there think that Higgers should be given the start but someone made the point that you either start Fardy or leave him out of the 23 completely..I don't concur with that particularly if we persist with the 6:2 bench split, he would still be a valuable set of fresh legs late in the game with Hodgo there too, plus as injury cover..I'd like to see Higgers start personally..

9 & 10 won't change, but as much as this will get shot down there is a case to start Beale over To'omua..this is more to do with the latter's lack of form..he was pretty good against the Boks but aside from that has had a pretty quiet test season and not really fulfilling the role of second playmaker..and it worked for the Tahs so why not? Don't shoot the messenger..

 

[Dctarget]

Who did Higgers and Hodgson come on for?


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[KOB1987]

Fardy & McCalman I think

EDIT: yep, just checked

 

[Wilson]

9 & 10 won't change, but as much as this will get shot down there is a case to start Beale over To'omua..this is more to do with the latter's lack of form..he was pretty good against the Boks but aside from that has had a pretty quiet test season and not really fulfilling the role of second playmaker..and it worked for the Tahs so why not? Don't shoot the messenger..

To'omua was great against the boks and has otherwise been rock solid in an unsettled backline, I wouldn't call that poor form. Putting beale there risks our midfield defence (or wherever beale defends) shot to shit. With To'omua looking like the long term option at 12 it only makes sense to give him as much time there in the lead up to the RWC as possible. Also beale had no impact on last weeks game when he played 30 minutes or so, compared to his impact in his sub 20 minute stints, making a start look pretty unlikely.

 

[Train Without a Station]

If this is to have any validity then we need to extend the same criteria to other players. That probably means that the following players should not be considered for the RWC:

• Moore
• TPN
• Genia
• Cooper
• Pocock
• Betham
• Speight
• Horwill
• and lots of others I could reel off.

Professional rugby is played at such a high physical level that a majority of players have long injury lapses, particularly as they get older. And its not just Australians - Carter is a week-to-week proposition for NZ. Doesn't mean NZ won't select him if he's fit; they're just going to build depth now that he doesn't play so regularly.

So, lets just be thankful we have him, select him when he's fit and keep building the depth at 8 when he's not.

Hawko,

Players get injured. That's a fact of life. When was the last time Palu has had a completely injury free season? 2009?

Genia, Horwill and Pocock have had major injuries. But that has been the extent of their injury troubles. They haven't missed 6 games in the other years too.

When I say a player that hasn't put a full un-interrupted season together for over 5 years, you can't counter with a list of players that have just had happened to have injuries in the last 24 months.

Tearing an ACL doesn't mean you are injury prone. Most professionals will do it, or other similar injuries in a contact sport. Playing 3 games then being out for hamstring issues, then coming back for a few then missing a few more than being back again then being out with a concussion does.

The only player that comes to mind with that sort of record right now is Chris F-Sautia from the Reds.

 

[Train Without a Station]

9 & 10 won't change, but as much as this will get shot down there is a case to start Beale over To'omua..this is more to do with the latter's lack of form..he was pretty good against the Boks but aside from that has had a pretty quiet test season and not really fulfilling the role of second playmaker..and it worked for the Tahs so why not? Don't shoot the messenger..

Because the All Blacks showed that no matter where he is on the field, he will be hunted down like a dog and exposed in defense. That's why.

Plus he did sweet fuck all when he was given more time on the weekend. Not much of a reason to start him.

Considering a "poor" To'omua is still our strongest defender and a strong runner in contact who gets past the outside shoulder and over the gain line, Beale has to be fucking electric when he comes on the be an option over To'omua.

 

[Joe Blow]

McCalman played well on the weekend but did not dominate. He was solid in everything he did and I was particularly happy with how effective he was jumping at 2.
I would start him at 6 with Higginbotham at 8.
In my mind a 6 is like an extension of the second row, sharing some of their duties whilst also contributing at the breakdown alongside his openside. Fardy does this as do Palu and McCalman. They generally play in close to the action where an 8 can be found in wider channels some of the time. McCalman looked as though he contributed more than an out of sorts Fardy against Argentina.
The 8 should be linking with the backs and have a good turn of pace for running off the base of the scrum and creating opportunity elsewhere. Yes he needs fro tackle and do his part at the breakdown but the good 8s do more than that.

 

[Dctarget]

So for a while we played two open sides? Possible that Fardy gets dropped from the XV for Hodgson?


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[fatprop]

To'omua was great against the boks and has otherwise been rock solid in an unsettled backline, I wouldn't call that poor form. Putting beale there risks our midfield defence (or wherever beale defends) shot to shit. With To'omua looking like the long term option at 12 it only makes sense to give him as much time there in the lead up to the RWC as possible. Also beale had no impact on last weeks game when he played 30 minutes or so, compared to his impact in his sub 20 minute stints, making a start look pretty unlikely.

I do wonder what else some want from To'omua

He tackles strongly

Takes the ball up directly

He can step into the 10 roll when Foley takes on the defence, he isn't selfish

 

[Train Without a Station]

I wouldn't change a single forward after that dominant forward performance, unless it would strengthen the scrum which was the only weak spot. If Link felt Carter's physicality wasn't going to be effective against the Boks that's the only thing I would entertain otherwise. Just because a player wasn't noticeable, doesn't mean they weren't doing exactly what they needed to.

And we had our best performing backline on the park so I wouldn't change them, though I'd being trying to make sure they worked on execution and decision making under pressure as much as time would allow.