Australia v South Africa - Perth - 6 September 2014

[Train Without a Station]

The locks are tough. Simmons is constantly one of the worst performers on the field but still seems too essential to the lineout to leave out.

Nope

Horwill has been awful most of the year but has started to return to some of his old form in the last month or 2.

Nope. If you are going to slag off bloke's I suggest you at least watch them play.

Simmons lacks impact in collisions, but is consistently a great line out operator and consistently is in the top end for work rate. He might not be yours, or Pfitzy's cup of tea, but is is not constantly one of the worst performers. In fact he was one of our best in Dunedin last year and on the EOYT.

Horwill started the year adequate, and has consistently improved since then and started to find good form from June. Not back to where he once was, but coming along well. In addition his set piece work has improved immensely in 2014. He's now one of the best line out exponents in the country and Simmons is the only superior lock in this regard.

 

[Viking]

Nope




Nope. If you are going to slag off bloke's I suggest you at least watch them play.

Simmons lacks impact in collisions, but is consistently a great line out operator and consistently is in the top end for work rate. He might not be yours, or Pfitzy's cup of tea, but is is not constantly one of the worst performers. In fact he was one of our best in Dunedin last year and on the EOYT.

Horwill started the year adequate, and has consistently improved since then and started to find good form from June. Not back to where he once was, but coming along well. In addition his set piece work has improved immensely in 2014. He's now one of the best line out exponents in the country and Simmons is the only superior lock in this regard.

You forgot to mention Simmons consistently gives away penalties.

 

[Pfitzy]

Consistency is the key.

Will not question his set piece with, but stats about work rate can often be misleading, particularly tackle. People are saying Palu had a bad game but he topped the tackle count.

An inconvenient stat, for some.

 

[Train Without a Station]

But remember people are saying that because Palu is selected at number 8, the position which is expected to be our key strike runner, and that's where he was somewhat anonymous.

A bit of a stretch, but to say oh our number 8 was great us, he topped the tackle count is a bit like saying, oh our 7 was great for us, he had 10 line out takes and 2 steals.

Obviously that's an exaggeration. But you get my point.

 

[Lorenzo]

I don't think Beale was a "shock" selection at fly-half. He was serviceable there at least in 2012 and he has played a 2nd-five style role at the tahs this year. Foley does have a bit of journeyman/tradesman about him so it's not hard to see why Beale was selected.

Might be a while before he's selected again, though.

 

[Braveheart81]

But remember people are saying that because Palu is selected at number 8, the position which is expected to be our key strike runner, and that's where he was somewhat anonymous.

A bit of a stretch, but to say oh our number 8 was great us, he topped the tackle count is a bit like saying, oh our 7 was great for us, he had 10 line out takes and 2 steals.

Obviously that's an exaggeration. But you get my point.

Absolutely, but by the same token he might have been filling that role because no one else was doing it.

If our 4,5 and 6 had made closer to the number of tackles their direct opponents made, maybe our number 8 would have had more opportunity to run the ball.

It's about balance and the pack as a whole does well when people are doing the jobs they are best at. The pack does badly when seemingly some players aren't doing any job at all.

 

[qwerty51]

SA's scrum problems are our fault apparently. http://www.supersport.com/rugby/springboks/news/140826/Heyneke_has_to_stick_with_props

However, the Boks can console themselves with the knowledge that their next opponents, Australia, are wily and canny in the scrums, playing the referee rather than their opposition, rather than being orientated towards using the scrum as a destructive weapon like the Pumas and some northern hemisphere teams do.
Indeed, the presence of the Australians in the southern hemisphere competitions may be one of the underlying reasons why the Bok scrum has struggled this season. So far they have played northern hemisphere opponents, who do rely a lot more on scrumming than southern hemisphere teams because of the conditions, and the Pumas, who base much of their rugby culture around that aspect of the game.
In the south, the South African and New Zealand teams have placed less emphasis on using the scrum as a weapon because they've been forced to adjust to the success the Australians enjoy in their quest to get the referees to depower the scrum. An example of this was of course the opening Rugby Championship match between the All Blacks and Wallabies.
With teams starting to focus in the south on either forcing or avoiding penalties at the scrums, it is small wonder that when they come up against a side like Argentina, who aim to scrum them off the ball rather than indulge in the subtle tactics that bring the referees into the game, they struggle. Wales, against whom the Boks also struggled, aren't the strongest scrumming pack in the northern hemisphere, but the point is they are a northern hemisphere team, and in the north the scrum is a different type of contest to what it is in the south.

 

[Scrubber2050]

C'mon TWAS - give it to those mugs who are giving James some stick - bastards, bastards, I say

 

[Highlander35]

Geoff bloody Cross was able to dominate some piss weak loosehead whom many were calling a better scrummager than Beast.

Geoff fucking Cross. A player rejected by BOTH Glasgow and Edinburgh in favour of second string Saffa tightheads.

Any and all scrum problems are the boks and the boks alone.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Absolutely, but by the same token he might have been filling that role because no one else was doing it.

If our 4,5 and 6 had made closer to the number of tackles their direct opponents made, maybe our number 8 would have had more opportunity to run the ball.

It's about balance and the pack as a whole does well when people are doing the jobs they are best at. The pack does badly when seemingly some players aren't doing any job at all.

I'm not actually knocking Palu. Yeah he had one bad game but he's clearly out best 8 at the moment.

But tackle stats are misleading. Your comment, whilst obviously not intended, comes across like 4,5,6 were avoiding tackles and Palu was running around making them. Chances are the playing topping the tackle count was the bloke who the opposition chose to run at the most. Obviously working hard between involvements and being in the line to make the tackle are a factor. But also there's less work and risk of missing in making a couple of tackles off the ruck than there is in making a couple of tackles covering in the back line.

 

[Braveheart81]

Tackle stats can be misleading but I also struggle to work out how our 4, 5 and 6 got both completely dominated by their opposite numbers in tackles made and those players were also dominant ball runners, particularly Retallick.

This seemed to be the area of the game where our players were most comprehensively outplayed by their direct opponents.

 

[Ash]

If our 4,5 and 6 had made closer to the number of tackles their direct opponents made, maybe our number 8 would have had more opportunity to run the ball.

According to ESPN stats:
Retallick made 7/0, Whitelock 12/1, Messam 7/2, McCaw 9/2, Read 7/1.
Simmons made 8/1, Carter 2/1, Fardy 4/1, Hooper 9/4, Palu 11/1.

Simmons may have faults, but his tackling is not one of them - he is consistently up near the top, and rarely misses more than 1.

Simmons is actually quite mobile and has a decent sized engine - for example, Fekitoa got on the outside of Simmons but Simmons ran him down from behind when Fekitoa propped to step another Australia player. Other members of the Wallaby tight 5 were run around in that game and didn't even bother chasing.

I've been disappointed with Simmons' weak cleanouts in the past, but he looks to have improved now.

The disadvantage Simmons brings are the one or two stupid penalties, and he's not a strong carrier. Last game he had 2 penalties, same as Carter. First game he had 0.

From our locks, I'd drop Carter first currently. Carter's concentrating on carrying, but he's just not effective at the moment, his body height is too high, and he's not as mobile around the park as Simmons. I don't know if Carter is still carrying that ankle syndenmosis injury or not, but he doesn't seem to be at peak effectiveness.

If you want to punish stupidity, then you'd seriously consider dropping Simmons for the yellow card.

 

[Ash]

Also surprised that no-one has mentioned how Link is using Skelton off the bench - he is coming on for a backrow (either Palu or Fardy), not a lock.

 

[chasmac]

To be fair on Higgers, if you look at the "trends of his past performances" He was playing a loose role at the reds and continued this role at the wallabies - which he was heavily criticised for. We wanted him to do more dirty work. Fair enough. Problem was he wasn't use to that as he played a different role at the Reds.

Then he moves to the Rebels and start doing the dirty work. Has a phenomenal season but ends up injured.

since then he has struggles to return from injury with poor performances.

I think we are harsh on players returning from injury. Take Lilo for an example - was never the same player after his ankle injury.

Give him some time. Plenty of potential there.

I agree with your comment regarding players returning from injury. Horwill , Cooper and Genia all fit into that category.

 

[chasmac]

Retallick made 7/0, Whitelock 12/1, Messam 7/2, McCaw 9/2, Read 7/1.
Simmons made 8/1, Carter 2/1, Fardy 4/1, Hooper 9/4, Palu 11/1.

Simmons may have faults, but his tackling is not one of them - he is consistently up near the top, and rarely misses more than 1.

Simmons is actually quite mobile and has a decent sized engine - for example, Fekitoa got on the outside of Simmons but Simmons ran him down from behind when Fekitoa propped to step another Australia player. Other members of the Wallaby tight 5 were run around in that game and didn't even bother chasing.

I've been disappointed with Simmons' weak cleanouts in the past, but he looks to have improved now.

The disadvantage Simmons brings are the one or two stupid penalties, and he's not a strong carrier. Last game he had 2 penalties, same as Carter. First game he had 0.

Simmons has improved alot, to the point that his only glaring weakness is his carry.
I think the perception of the stupid penalties is a bit harsh considering most of them seem to happen in and around lineouts.
This is where he has been given a leadership role and therefore may be trying ( too hard perhaps ) to make a statement.

It would be interesting to rank him against the other locks we have had in the last decade. http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/wallaby-lock-of-the-decade/

I'd put him on about the same as Harrison but Googy gets the nod for his steal vs the BI Lions in 2001 game 3.[/quote]

 

[Braveheart81]

Great post Ash. I probably unfairly tarred Simmons with the same brush.

The point stands though that the AB locks outplayed our pair by a very large degree and Simmons getting yellow carded didn't help that.

It probably helped show that Simmons has become a strong scrummager though.

 

[Mr Doug]

If "Big Kev" gets a run, I hope he is able to reclaim the form that has eluded him this year, even if it's at the expense of "cousin Sammy"(for 50 minutes of match time, max)!!!

 

[Ash]

That AB lock pairing I think will go down as one of the best ever. Retallick is just a freak.

 

[barbarian]

I think Simmons at the moment epitomises the difference between 'workrate' and 'impact'.

Yes his stats are decent enough, but has he made any impact on the game? Has he knocked anyone back in the tackle, blown a defender off the ball, made a nice offload to set up an attacking play?

At his best he is capable of all that, but I just haven't seen it in the last two weeks.

Skelton may not have the work rate Simmons does but he can make a real impact on the game.

There is nothing wrong with workrate, and chalking up good stats. I've lauded Palu for years for that very ability. But I think Simmons just needs a couple of bright spark moments each game and he'll be back in the good books, at the moment it's all pretty flat.
.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Very fair